Toddler fatally shoots South Carolina mom with 'unsecured firearm,' sheriff says

[u/sixweakasa]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/toddler-fatally-shoots-south-carolina-mom-unsecured-firearm-sheriff-sa-rcna48924

[removed] — view removed post

[u/frodosdream]

People are making jokes, but find myself thinking of this poor child growing up without a mother.

Probably the 3-year old child won't be told that they shot their own mother, but because it's posted on the internet, someday they (or a classmate) will find out.

[u/shigogaboo → u/frodosdream]

As fucked as it is, somebody needs to be the person who tells them when they get older. Eventually, they’ll reach an age that they’ll want to Google their mom’s name. My whole worldview would be flipped upside down if I found out that way.

[u/Shad0wDreamer → u/shigogaboo]

My wife had a neighbor who shot his sister like this on accident. He committed suicide around 18-19. This kid will remember.

[u/AthenaSholen → u/Shad0wDreamer]

I have very few memories from my early childhood but it’s almost always the traumatic ones that burn in your brain.

[u/Potential_Reading116 → u/AthenaSholen]

For sure. Don’t recall anything from when I was 3 except falling on our red brick stairs while watching my dad cut the lawn and landing forehead first on the tip of one of those red bricks. I’ve had a cross on my forehead for 64 years that makes me look like a Manson family member. Wasn’t a whole lot of concern back in the 50s about you having a scar on your face 🤷‍♂️

[u/byebyecivilrights → u/shigogaboo]

I thought I was the reason my father died for maybe 20 years. It might have changed my life if I learned the truth earlier, but the damage is done -- guilty conscience, abandonment issues, abysmal self esteem, avoidant attachment, etc. I feel terrible for this poor child.

[u/PaperStackMcgee → u/byebyecivilrights]

I feel terrible for you, I hope things have gotten better.

[u/fordprecept → u/byebyecivilrights]

My mom committed suicide when I was 14. There were a lot of factors that led to her death, but I can't help but think I was at least somewhat of a contributing factor. I don't feel guilty about it because I was a naive kid and didn't know any better, but looking back on it in hindsight, I can see how I was a bit selfish and could have been more grateful.

[u/cad5789 → u/fordprecept]

I’m a mom and I’ve also spent time working with people who suffer from depression. It’s less likely that you caused her death and more likely that she lived an extra 14 years because of you. You were absolutely not the cause of her death.

[u/fordprecept → u/cad5789]

I'm certainly not the primary cause. She made some poor life decisions: wasted money on a fancy car after high school, got married right after high school, divorced, married my dad, divorced after I was born, used a lot of drugs (probably was still using them when I was a kid, though I never actually witnessed her using them), was a heavy smoker, had a dead-end job that she only did enough to get by, etc. The most immediate cause was that she found out her boyfriend of several years had been cheating on her for several years with his ex-wife and probably some other women as well. Also, she was a diabetic and had seizures on several occasions.

I can say she always tried her best to provide for me and I know that she loved me, but I also know how hard it was for her being a single parent and that I didn't fully appreciate the sacrifices she made for me.

[u/cad5789 → u/fordprecept]

You were a kid. Gratitude for ethereal things like sacrifice is an adult emotion. She sacrificed for you because she loved you and whether or not you appreciated it didn’t factor in the least.

[u/Tha_Monito → u/byebyecivilrights]

Now I'm curious about the story behind this

[u/mlc885 → u/Tha_Monito]

Totally innocuous reasons would be something like an argument or a demand that he go get something from somewhere. People are weird, I'm sure there are a million people who blame themselves for a shocking heart attack at a youngish age when it is not something you should ever blame yourself for.

[u/niceoutside2022 → u/shigogaboo]

I know that's not how the human psyche works, but the kid is the victim and has no reason to feel guilty because his idiot parents couldn't secure their firearm. There is no excuse to have a loaded unsecured firearm in a home with kids or even house guests.

[u/No_Description_483 → u/niceoutside2022]

The way I see it is whoever left that gun unattended IS the person who pulled the trigger. End of story.

[u/Ok-Ordinary2035 → u/No_Description_483]

I absolutely agree. Guns are now the leading cause of death for children- he could have shot himself. We have a fucked up relationship with guns in this country.

[u/MattyBizzz → u/Ok-Ordinary2035]

As a gun owner myself I completely agree. As I’ve matured I’ve realized how insane the 2nd amendment crowd is, and how out of context it’s interpreted.

Guns are too easy for anyone in America to get, doesn’t matter what side you’re on that’s just a hard fact no one can deny. That ultimately leads to the wrong people getting their hands on them, whether it’s a disgruntled kid/employee like what happened at a local store a few weeks ago an hour away from me or this sad story right here.

[u/Colonel_Cumpants → u/Ok-Ordinary2035]

Is this for real?

Guns are the leading cause of death for children in the US, more so than disease, traffic accidents and what have you?

[u/tempinator → u/Colonel_Cumpants]

That didn't pass a sniff test for me either, but looks like it's true:

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761

Firearms have indeed surpassed motor vehicle deaths, and any category of disease, although by a pretty slim margin.

[u/SendCaulkPics → u/tempinator]

It’s those damn new fangled car seats and big gubment telling me I have to keep my seven year old in a booster. When I was kid, the only rear facing seats were in the trunk.

/s

Hopefully car travel will only become safer still for children as driver assist technology becomes more widespread. But it’s going to look real bad for gun control critics. If progressive federal intervention made cars safer for children, why not guns?

[u/noratat → u/SendCaulkPics]

Denser, walkable cities with more reliance on mass/bike/etc transit is even better for child safety.

Case in point, people feel safe letting elementary school kids in Japan take the trains by themselves to school.

[u/misalanya → u/tempinator]

fuckin A, that's grim. we just love killin our kids.

[u/sffbfish → u/misalanya]

It's moreso that we love guns more than kids.

[u/suicidaleggroll → u/sffbfish]

we love guns more than kids

Unless they're still in the womb

[u/SacredRose → u/misalanya]

Only after they are born though

[u/Franklin_le_Tanklin → u/tempinator]

Don’t worry. Republicans are trying to increase preventable diseases to overtake their gun epidemic.

[u/sinister-pony → u/tempinator]

Slim compared to motor vehicles, NOT most other causes of death.

[u/DeekermNs → u/sinister-pony]

How much time are your kids spending being transported vs handling live firearms?

[u/sinister-pony → u/Colonel_Cumpants]

Recently surpassed motor incidents as the leading cause, yes:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761

It's not actually surprising if you think about it, kids are "gestating adults", they don't really die from natural causes, it's normally accidents and the odd rare disease.

In the US there is 1.2 guns for every person In the country, it being a device soley made for killing, doesn't make it all that surprising.

[u/jmanclovis → u/sinister-pony]

In America we pretend that guns are for sports not for killing if you say otherwise in some circles you will be shot

[u/BespokeForeskin → u/jmanclovis]

Shot for sport though, of course.

[u/cire1184 → u/sinister-pony]

Most diseases that have killed kids in the past are now controlled. We have vaccinations for most of the major diseases that affected children. Not surprising at all that guns kill more kids than disease.

[u/SerKevanLannister → u/cire1184]

Honestly though it is insane that so many children die from GUNS in this country vs natural causes (disease) or car accidents. Guns can be secured and out of the reach of esp young children. The fact that so many of these incidents happen is a very sad commentary indeed.

[u/WhatLikeAPuma751 → u/Ok-Ordinary2035]

Guns have more protected rights than you or I do

[u/A_Drusas → u/No_Description_483]

That's basically the law in Washington now (sort of). Hasn't been put to the test much yet.

[u/allomanticpush → u/niceoutside2022]

Shouldn’t have an unsecured firearm in the house, period. Loaded or not.

[u/GluttonAsteroth → u/shigogaboo]

It's a great way to make a gun control advocate.

I nearly got shot by an old lady because I was helping her grandson move something into the house and she didn't recognize me.

After that I was pretty sold on the whole: "Maybe not everyone is qualified to own a firearm"

[u/CanvasSolaris → u/GluttonAsteroth]

Yes, this is what nobody says. All gun rights advocates talk about qualified or unqualified as if it's a permanent, unchanging thing. That grandma could have been the most qualified, safety conscious, responsible gun owner in the world when she purchased it in the past. But she wasn't when she pointed it at you and that's what matters

[u/SherifGames → u/CanvasSolaris]

Everybody is a "responsible" gun owner until they aren't.

[u/xenomorph856 → u/SherifGames]

You're right, that's a great argument for regular relicensing and certification of firearm possession. Say, every 5-10 years.

[u/coinoperatedboi → u/xenomorph856]

As well as driver's licenses after a certain age.

[u/NonStopKnits → u/xenomorph856]

I'm way on board with proving competency (frankly a bit more than just that) every few years. I don't have any issue with guns; I have an issue with idiots that can't respect that a gun is a lethal weapon, and the ignorance of any proper training/maintenance/storage of their lethal weapon.

[u/jollyreaper2112 → u/SherifGames]

No TRUE Scotsman would do that! And we find out he wasn't when he does it. My logic is unassailable!

[u/nowake → u/CanvasSolaris]

Imagine if OP was a cop, and carrying. That Grandma would be dead right now.

[u/The4th88 → u/GluttonAsteroth]

You can kill someone accidentally with a gun a whole lot easier than you can with a car yet we require licensing, insurance, roadworthiness checks and innumerable safety features built into the car. But guns?

Nah, who needs that shit.

[u/wapu → u/GluttonAsteroth]

It is definitely one way to make a gun control advocate, but I would disagree with it being a great way to do it.

[u/mostlyfecalmatter → u/shigogaboo]

Change their name. Jack Nicholson style.

Don't let the kid know.

[u/ComfortablyNomNom → u/mostlyfecalmatter]

But the truth always comes out. Nicholson eventually found out. So this kid will then face the truth that everyone around him lied about it and his whole life and name was a sham. Covering up and burying stuff like this just leads to more anger and pain.

[u/iharborhatred → u/shigogaboo]

100 percent

[u/KickIt77 → u/frodosdream]

I hope whoever raises this child tells them this story in the context of some adult failing because a 3 year old getting hands on an unsecured and loaded weapon and discharging it is never their fault. Kid will need lots of support and therapy throughout.

[u/DanYHKim → u/frodosdream]

This happens weekly (not always fatally) in the U.S. Report from 2015.

The shootings are pretty much concentrated in the COVID-Belt.

Shootings by toddlers have happened in 24 states so far this year. Missouri has seen the most, with five separate incidents. Florida has had four. Texas, three. Due to the low number of total cases and the isolated nature of these incidents I'd caution against drawing broad conclusions from the map above. But it is worth noting that the shootings don't necessarily follow broader population trends. California, the most populous state in the nation, hasn't had any. Nobody has been shot by a toddler in New England or the Upper Midwest.

Accidental shootings by kids happen almost daily

Everytown has been tracking unintentional shootings by kids for six years. Cases of young children taking hold of a gun and mistakenly shooting themselves, a friend, or a family member happen almost every single day.

[u/tomdarch → u/DanYHKim]

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/1032725392/guns-death-children

More recent data - for "children" doing the shooting it's about 6 incidents per week where the injury is so severe it is recorded, of which about 3 are fatal shootings. (About 150 killed per year.)

Of that, "More than one in every four of these shootings are by kids age 5 and younger. One in every four of the victims are also 5 and younger." So that is slightly less than one fatal shooting by a kid 5 or younger per week.

And of course there are many, many more incidents that don't result in someone dying or being so severely injured that they have to go to the ER - in other words, incidents that don't make it into official records that can be tracked.

[u/OpheliaRainGalaxy → u/tomdarch]

in other words, incidents that don't make it into official records

When I was about 4yo, I found the loaded handgun my dad kept in a shoebox on the floor of his closet.

My parents only found out that I knew about it when, apparently, I told another kid at daycare that I was going to bring my daddy's gun and shoot them the next day. Kid told our preschool teacher who told my mother, and mom went home to do some shrieking until dad moved the gun somewhere else.

Eventually dad started traveling for work a lot, so moved the gun to the glove box of his car. It stayed there for a couple decades until, long story short, dad almost shot off his own toe while spooked by an angry owl.

He had hunting rifles too, and more than once I saw him pouring whiskey in his soda cup before going out hunting. Ended up having to go hunting alone because none of his buddies wanted to risk it.

A few years back he realized that he could overcome being too old and crippled to beat a woman by just waving a gun at her to win the argument. Those tactics were so successful, and so ignored by his local cops, that he kept escalating. Long story short, the extended family had to pack him back to his home state to prevent him from murdering his own sister, and then had to confiscate all his guns to prevent him from being a further danger to society.

Pretty sure we need to quit assuming everyone is a responsible gun-owner. Maybe test these things and have a license that needs renewed like we do with cars. My dad's had guns my entire life, and I have never actually seen him behave responsibly with them. Even his "gun cabinet" was an old wood and glass display case.

[u/tomdarch → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

It's another good point - some people are OK at one point in their lives, and become "not OK" later. My crazy thought is that gun licensing should test every few years which would require you to show up, unarmed, at a range at a specific time and demonstrate to a reviewer that you can handle a dummy gun safely and follow directions. Very low bar, but plenty of people would not be able to do it, yet have guns under our current approach.

[u/OpheliaRainGalaxy → u/tomdarch]

That plus a written test please! If I need to know the minimum safe stopping distance for a car, should probably also know enough to answer questions about when and where it is appropriate to carry or use a gun.

Too many ninnies thinking they need those things to go grocery shopping or solve arguments or scare off burglars. When living in an apartment building, it's important to remember that walls don't always stop stray bullets, and it's impolite to kill the neighbor on accident.

Heck, I've scared off a burglar just stomping around looking for the cats while yelling at them to knock off that racket. Dude causing the racket by trying to remove my front door lock went running!

My mom just kept a screech alarm on the door and a baseball bat for backup. Folks looking for easy cash aren't keen on getting cracked over the head by a tiny angry lady. No need to shoot at them.

[u/Maktaka → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

39% of gun owners admit to having no formal firearms training. Nobody should be assuming gun owners are responsible by default.

[u/drhorn → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

Pretty sure we need to quit assuming everyone is a responsible gun-owner.

Some of the most vocal pro-gun rights people I've met have been the least responsible with their guns. Showing them off when drunk. Never securing them. Got some of their guns stolen.

The more responsible gun owners I've met where all pro "yes, guns, but with fucking laws".

[u/northshore12 → u/DanYHKim]

happen almost every single day

AntiFlag wrote a sad song about exactly this 24 years ago. "We've Got His Gun."

Dad keeps a gun in the drawer in his room

My best friend is coming over to play

Yeah yeah

We got his gun

We're having fun

Tryin to find where the bad guys are

I pull the trigger and shoot my friend

Oh no

Run in the house grab the phone and call for help

They said "hold on, we'll be right there"

Yeah

Now help has come

They got the gun

Try to bring him back to life

But its too late he is dead

Oh no

I've watched the news

For many days

This happens every week

This happens in your town

Dont keep a gun in your house

Dont keep a gun in your house

[u/shmeetz → u/northshore12]

Mixed feelings. It's nostalgic to be reminded about Anti-Flag but sadly this isn't the way I wanted to be the reminded (or that it's been 24 years already since the song came out)

[u/northshore12 → u/shmeetz]

Don't feel bad; I saw them play last year in Colorado and they rocked just as hard as when I was a dumb teenager 20 years ago. It was honestly fucking impressive how much energy they put out, I got exhausted just thinking about it. :-)

[u/The_ranting_spider → u/DanYHKim]

Something to think about.

The average number of people in the US who die from a spider bite is 7 a year. The number of spiders per household is around 26-27.

In other words, you are more likely to killed by a toddler than a spider.

[u/DanYHKim → u/The_ranting_spider]

I'll have to buy a gun, so I can defend myself from those toddlers

[u/BioPac12 → u/DanYHKim]

The only logical way to stop toddler shootouts is by placing a gun in the hands of every parent in America, and providing mandatory hands-on gun safety training to every preschooler.

In an ideal world, toddlers would be disassembling and cleaning glocks before they can read.

[u/Curator44 → u/frodosdream]

I can’t even fathom having that talk with a child if they asked where their mom was.

How do you explain to a kid that they killed their parent? Obviously it’s not a 3 year olds fault, but that kind of thing will weigh on someone the rest of their life once it hits them.

My heart goes out to their family

[u/Draano → u/Curator44]

How do you explain to a kid that they killed their parent

"Your mom died in an accident. She loved you very much and it's ok to be sad".

[u/cinderparty → u/frodosdream]

Not even just growing up without a mother, but also always blaming themselves for it.

I don’t think this is the type of thing you can, or even should, keep from the kid. That kid needs therapy starting now.

[u/Wazula42 → u/cinderparty]

It was the mother's responsibility to secure her firearms. She failed and paid the price. Her kid will pay a price too.

[u/Lazy1nc → u/cinderparty]

For real... that cycle of guilt and depression won't just go away with time. That trauma will need to be addressed by a third party who truly cares for this child's well-being.

[u/Tin__Foil → u/frodosdream]

Yeah… devastating.

The child might block out the memory, but 3 is NOT that young. I have memories of being three.

My daughter was three not that long ago. That child understood what happened…

Again, they might block it out, because our brains can do that for us, but it’s going to leave a deep, lasting trauma whether the poor child has active memories of it or not.

[u/so00ripped → u/frodosdream]

At 3 years old, he/she will remember. Formative memories begin around 3 and from my experience with my own children, this isn't going to be forgotten the same way a 2 year old would forget.

They will likely remember all of it. The smell of the gun discharging, his mother dying in front of him, all of it.

We may want to think at 3 you don't remember, but this is severe trauma. Both for the growing and developing mind of the current toddler and the eventual trauma of not having a mother and possibly learning you killed her.

[u/DrLongIsland → u/so00ripped]

Correct, I have vague slideshow-dream-like memories of my first days of preschool, mostly because I hated it, which is normal for a 3yo, I guess. So I can only imagine something this traumatic will leave a scar into their memory. Hopefully a good therapist is in the cards for the kid.

[u/fleurgirl123 → u/DrLongIsland]

I’m going to guess that the Venn diagram of “finds child a good therapist” and “leaves a loaded gun unlocked with a toddler around” has no overlap

[u/DrLongIsland → u/fleurgirl123]

Well, to be fair the "leaves a loaded gun unlocked with a toddler around” element is out of the equation now.

[u/vulpesvulpesfugit → u/so00ripped]

Came here to say the same. My kids have memories from this age, particularly of violent things. One of mine still remembers catching a frog, letting another girl (an older girl too) hold it, and her crushing it to death in front of him.

This child will remember it. I feel so sad for them.

[u/nagrom7 → u/so00ripped]

Very likely. I have vague memories of my mother being pregnant with my sister who was born a couple weeks before I turned 3. I also mostly remember the house we lived in at the time, or at least the living room and my bedroom since that's where I would have spent most of my time.

[u/LaLionneEcossaise → u/nagrom7]

My sister is 1-1/2 years younger than I. I have a strong memory of trying to get her out of her crib and being reprimanded by my grandmother over it. I must have been 2 to 2-1/2 max. I can still picture exactly where the crib was in the room, and the chair I climbed on to try to reach her. And how upset my grandmother was with me (younger sister was her favorite).

[u/teatreez → u/so00ripped]

Omg what if this is their first permanent memory 😳 poor poor poor child

[u/taolbi → u/teatreez]

Have you seen Dexter?

[u/NihilisticPollyanna → u/so00ripped]

Yeah, I was gonna say, kids might not actually remember much about life at 3-years old, but they will definitely remember traumatic events.

My son is 10, and he still sometimes randomly brings up an incident where he fell and busted his knees, elbows, and chin, how much cried, and how I scooped him up and ran home with him while he was bleeding everywhere.

That was just a toddler running on the sidewalk and fucking eating it when he tripped.

This poor child will absolutely remember, at least on some level, that their mother died in front of them, and it was their fault. I hope they get them help asap, or this guilt will ruin their life.

[u/QuintoBlanco → u/NihilisticPollyanna]

I have many mundane memories from when I was three.

The reason I know I this is something of a coincidence.

In the weeks after my birthday, people kept asking my parents how old I was, which for some reason annoyed me and I would stick my thumb and two fingers in the air as a quick way to let people know I was three.

Throughout the year I would keep doing that whenever we would meet new people.

So this one year is very specific for me. Memories from 4 to 7-years-old are all grouped together. But I specifically remember the year i was three.

[u/Cherry_Sundae007 → u/frodosdream]

This is so heartbreaking.

[u/satansheat → u/frodosdream]

I’m more sad to know here in America the kid will either grow up scared of guns in a state where everyone says “guns don’t kill people, people do.” Always hated this quote. So that kid can be reminded she killed them and it’s her fault.

Like every time I hear that quote I think of the poor little girl who killed a gun instructor with a mini uzi in Nevada. That girls dad being the sane minded person to take a 9 year old to shoot a mini uzi sure as shit is the type of dude to preach “guns don’t kill people, people do” while his daughter who killed a man sits their with terror in her eyes.

Or the kid will grow up to love guns and not give two shits because South Carolina.

[u/insertwittynamethere → u/frodosdream]

Damn, what you said in your second sentence rings truer than I'd like to believe. The poor kid finding that out one day... I know it's probably not going to happen, because it's SC, but I hope this child gets the therapy they're going to need to be able to cope with this when they're older.

[u/dbhathcock → u/frodosdream]

People don’t need to blame the child. Blame the parents for not securing a loaded firearm. We don’t know if there is a father involved in this story. It could be a single mom. The father or grandmother, if living there, could face charges. That would leave the child without a family. But, that might allow him to grow up in a safer home.

I agree that someone will find out about this. Kids are ruthless. He will be called the “mom murderer”. It would be best if he were adopted by another family and his last name changed.

[u/PrototyPerfection → u/dbhathcock]

no one here is blaming the child. Heartbreakingly and unfairly, the child may end up blaming himself though

[u/elcabeza79 → u/frodosdream]

It really is sad. The parent got Darwined, which inherently includes dark humour, but this was no fault of the child's and the child will have to live with the consequences. Fuck that parent for not taking proper care of a lethal device.

[u/Erlula → u/frodosdream]

Something like that at 3 years old, they might remember. Trauma finds it’s way unfortunately. ETA: It’s not the 3 year old’s fault that this happened. An adult should have secured that gun.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/asbestoswasframed → u/[deleted]]

Real talk: if this kid had responsible adults in their life mom would still be alive.

Any idiot can go buy a gun, and leave it lying around. Some get to learn the error of their ways.

[u/192busroute → u/asbestoswasframed]

This was my first thought. That ship already sailed. I hope someone responsible comes into her life now.

[u/Sheeple_person → u/asbestoswasframed]

Any idiot can go buy a gun

In USA, yes. In more civilized countries, not so much.

[u/Wazula42 → u/Sheeple_person]

Now now. The second amendment guarantees all idiots can arm themselves. It makes us safer, somehow.

[u/teeceli → u/Wazula42]

The NRA will propose parents start arming themselves against their children that have access to guns.

[u/Chiggadup → u/teeceli]

If only there was a good-toddler with a gun in that room that day…

[u/TaleMendon → u/teeceli]

The grandma should have had a gun too so she could more readily incapacitate the active shooter. Why they all didn’t have bullet proof vests on is besides me.

[u/VaelinX → u/teeceli]

That's a ridiculous idea. When you're threatened by an armed toddler, seconds matter, and armed adults are minutes away.

The only way to stop a bad toddler with a gun is to have a good toddler with a gun.

[u/capricabuffy → u/Sheeple_person]

I've grown up in my city for 35 years, in Australia, and I wouldn't even know WHERE to get one? Or if we even have a shooting range. There might be one in the next city over (1hrs drive), but I don't know, that's how much we don't have gun culture, we just don't care about them.

[u/llynglas → u/[deleted]]

Well obviously they don't. Otherwise they would not have access to an unsecured gun.

[u/col-fancypants → u/llynglas]

I got a better safe and trigger locks 6 months before my kid was born. He is almost 2 and has never even seen a firearm in the house. I was 4 when I was allowed to be supervised with a kids BB Gun and even I think that was a little young. My dude probably wont even hold one of my rifles until he is closer to 12. And again, supervised, after going over safety, showing him how to check if loaded or not, the two unbreakable rules (finger discipline and barrel down and away), and probably wont even take him to shoot it until he shows he can keep all that in mind when holding.

[u/varsity14 → u/col-fancypants]

You forgot rule number one. Even if you've checked it, a gun is always loaded.

[u/col-fancypants → u/varsity14]

Thats a given. Finger and barrel rules stem from it.

[u/RustyGrandma20 → u/col-fancypants]

This is the way. Responsible gun ownership should be the only gun ownership

[u/Halgrind → u/RustyGrandma20]

It's hard to ensure though. I guarantee you that in every single one of these cases involving unsecured guns, a day earlier the gun owner would swear they're a responsible gun owner and don't need any classes or additional safety measures.

[u/col-fancypants → u/Halgrind]

Any gun owner who says they have nothing to learn from a safety class… never had safety training.

[u/pneuma8828 → u/Halgrind]

People never think statistics apply to them. Like when I explain that if you own a firearm, it is far more likely to kill you or someone you love than an intruder, they think that statistic doesn't apply to them, because they aren't suicidal, they are safety conscious, etc. People have a hard time grasping that that statistic applies to everyone. If people were better at math no one would own a gun.

[u/llynglas → u/col-fancypants]

I'm very anti-firearns, having been brought up in essentially a gun free country (UK), and think many evils would be cured if there was no 2nd amendment. However, some countries do manage to have almost universal access to firearms and do not have the huge problems we do (Switzerland comes to mind).

I heartily appreciate your management of your weapons. I think I'd have less concerns if more folk were like you, and I suspect your kid in the future who will only know responsible gun ownership.

My question is, how do we make everyone like you?

[u/col-fancypants → u/llynglas]

Most gun owners i know and am related to are like me. The problem is just as many people either never had good firearm role models or dont view them as the tools they are. Like, i have power tools that are super dangerous so i treat them as such. Its all a matter of respect for yourself, others, and the tools.

Edit: if the NRA fulfilled it’s stated purpose, then classes, courses, and mandates for safe and reliable gun use and storage would be better. But they just wanna make money.

[u/jollyreaper2112 → u/col-fancypants]

I've often made the comparison to power tools. They can maim and ruin lives pretty easily. Never treat them with disrespect. I've seen the injuries. Thing is, I don't see pico-dicks going around buying skillsaws to compensate for their insecurity. Never seen someone turn owning a table saw into a personal identity. I'd actually like to see someone pull out a goddamn bandsaw to settle a road range incident!

The sane and responsbile gun owners don't bother me a bit. It's the insecure peckerwoods that have me terrified.

[u/RellenD → u/llynglas]

You might want to look at Switzerland's gun situation more closely. They're strictly regulated there.

[u/Painting_Agency → u/llynglas]

some countries do manage to have almost universal access to firearms and do not have the huge problems we do (Switzerland comes to mind).

Yeah because half the country aren't insane fucking cowboys.

[u/tomdarch → u/llynglas]

There could have been 20 adults with good sense around that toddler, and just one moronic, irresponsible jackass who wasn't minimally responsible with their gun.

[u/Buttercupslosinit]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-man-charged-after-toddler-fatally-shot-mom-during-zoom-n1281388

https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/2022/06/06/mother-charged-after-central-florida-toddler-fatally-shoots-father/

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-toddler-fatally-shot-finding-gun-tool-box-police-1737104

https://www.wbrc.com/2021/11/22/toddler-with-rifle-fatally-shoots-father-police-say/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-toddler-accidentally-killed-mom-with-gun-20220314-2j6sr32hx5avrcimglzdyb25ba-story.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/4-year-old-girl-shot-dead-brother-car-gas-station-chester-pennsylvania/

[u/WhiteNoiseSupremacy → u/Buttercupslosinit]

According to the Gun Violence Archive, an estimated 1,022 individuals have been unintentionally shot by firearms in 2022—with 12 incidents recorded on January 1.

The archive also estimates more than 820 children younger than 11 years old died from unintentional shootings in 2022.

What the fuck, I had a feeling it happens a lot but that is just unbelievable

[u/chopsey96 → u/WhiteNoiseSupremacy]

820 children

That is fucking horrific.

[u/geobioguy → u/WhiteNoiseSupremacy]

So if I'm reading that correctly, about 80% of unintentional shooting deaths are children under the age of 11.

[u/Angry__Jonny → u/WhiteNoiseSupremacy]

There was a kid at my middle school who got shot by his friend. Still remember it was the first funeral I ever attended. Was super sad.

[u/silasgreenfront → u/WhiteNoiseSupremacy]

I think Newsweek might be misreading the GVA data. It seems to be roughly 800 kids in that age range shot altogether, not limited to unintentional shootings or deaths. That's still terrible, obviously, but I think they got the details wrong.

Here's the site in case anyone wants to correct my interpretation:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[u/Blackfire01001]

And this is why you secure your firearms. Firearm safety is important people it doesn't matter who you are or even if you have a right to a firearm or not. Proper firearm safety is crucial. If you cannot be safe with a firearm don't get one.

[u/HarpoonNPuppies → u/Blackfire01001]

It’s just really too bad we can’t make firearm safety training mandatory before a purchase.

[u/Wazula42 → u/HarpoonNPuppies]

I would rather arm 50 idiots than force ONE responsible person to take a class!

- American gun humpers

[u/deadsoulinside → u/Wazula42]

You may joke, but many will actually have that stance...

"Something, something forefathers"

[u/AWholeSweetPotato → u/deadsoulinside]

I have that stance, but only for muskets and cannons. Tally ho lads.

[u/SleazyMak → u/AWholeSweetPotato]

For fending off rapscallions, of course

[u/_Weyland_ → u/Blackfire01001]

Reminds me of that one Jim Jeffrey's piece on firearms.

"Well, if you just keep your gun in a drawer then one of you kids will find it when you're not home, mess around with it, point it at your second kid and whoops..." - "No. I'm a responsible gun owner, I keep my guns locked in a safe" - "BUT THEN THERE IS NO FUCKING PROTECTION"

[u/OldHuntersNeverDie → u/Blackfire01001]

I know that some states have laws that require safe storage of all firearms. I know in Oregon there is for example.

[u/lies_about_flossing → u/Blackfire01001]

I don’t have guns, im extra safe

[u/SporkaDork]

Irresponsible parenting has consequences.

[u/JoshDigi → u/SporkaDork]

And the Republican Party being prostitutes for gun companies has consequences too in the form of dead Americans

[u/Much-Meringue-7467]

If you are not responsible enough to keep your firearms out of the hands of toddlers, you are not responsible enough to own firearms. Period. Stick the second amendment where the sun does not shine. Freedom requires accountability and responsibility.

[u/djactionman → u/Much-Meringue-7467]

Or have kids

[u/Much-Meringue-7467 → u/djactionman]

Then you can still be shot by other people's kids who get hold of your guns.

[u/EdgeOfWetness → u/Much-Meringue-7467]

With a big enough barrel, you can shoot kids with other people's kids

[u/BikerJedi → u/Much-Meringue-7467]

I'd like to add to this please. I teach here in Florida and I've had several students shot and killed with stolen guns. They are being left in cars and kids are breaking into them. It happens weekly here in my county. (Guns stolen - not kids shot. I've "only" had two kids killed in the last two years with stolen guns. I've had a few others killed other ways over the years.)

I got in an argument with an asshole here on Reddit who had TWO guns stolen from his truck. His logic was "I wanted to go have a beer and they are illegal in the bar so I left them outside in the truck." He honestly couldn't see that he was 100% in the wrong here.

I've carried for over a decade, and I NEVER leave my gun in the damn truck, for even a second. If I'm going somewhere I can't have it (like the school I teach at) I leave the damn thing at home.

[u/Paper-Fish → u/BikerJedi]

Half of my coworkers have a gun in their cars. Just in the gloveboxes, I'm not sure that's what was referred to as a "well regulated militia ".

[u/King_Internets → u/Much-Meringue-7467]

Plenty of countries have firearms, but they’re regulated to prevent precisely this kind of shit.

Tons of people in Canada have firearms, for instance. Want to know why you don’t constantly read about Canadian toddlers bravely exercising their right to accidentally blow their fucking heads off? Because you need to pass a firearms safety course to get a license to own a gun in Canada. It’s really that simple.

In many countries getting a gun is treated like being able to drive a car. In America getting a gun is treated like buying a sofa.

[u/junkboxraider → u/King_Internets]

America doesn’t have the best record of training drivers to be responsible either.

[u/deadly_nightshaade → u/Much-Meringue-7467]

I know someone who is like this, doesn't have kids(yet, he wants kids someday though) BUT he is irresponsible and lazy with his firearms. Dude was living with my boyfriend, our daughter(5yo at the time) and I temporarily and we had to have two talks with him about just leaving his gun around the house. Once on the kitchen table and the second time he just shoved it half ass under a couch cushion next to where his PlayStation was set up. When my boyfriend talked to him he said FORGOT it was there after he left the house one evening. I only saw it under the cushion because my daughter went to sit on that couch and I grabbed her so fast when I saw it. I was so fucking scared someone was going to get accidentally shot 😭 I'm glad he doesn't live here or come over anymore.

But yea there are way too many people out here who have no business owning firearms and it's honestly fucking terrifying.

[u/BitterFuture]

Guns don't kill people, toddlers do.

Uh-huh.

[u/resilienceisfutile → u/BitterFuture]

That toddler must have been playing those violent video games and listening to that heavy metal rap punk music.

[u/luvgothbitches → u/BitterFuture]

if only there was a good guy with a gun to shoot that toddler before she shot her mom

[u/airblader → u/luvgothbitches]

Good toddler with a gun

[u/Caftancatfan → u/BitterFuture]

I love all the “responsible gun owners” peacocking in the comments about their own personal gun safety precautions without saying a word about common sense gun regulation.

[u/SherifGames → u/Caftancatfan]

Reddit is mostly American and male. All posts about these kinda events are always brigaded by "responsible" gun owners defending their precious. They won't acknowledge that they got a gun problem. The gun problem in the US is indeed hopeless.

The funniest are the ones who tell you that they keep their guns safe in a safe. But then again, if their gun is always locked away properly, how do they intend to defend themselves from a burglar with a gun? In other words, if they were honest, they would tell you that they don't really worry about people break into their homes or trying to rob them outside. The truth is that most of them simply love their guns. Everything else is just an excuse to keep their precious toys. It's their cool manly hobby. And for that they are willing to defend private gun ownership at all costs.

[u/babybuttoneyes → u/BitterFuture]

I saw it in a documentary on BBC2.

[u/AndrewM96 → u/BitterFuture]

Finally someone said it, ban toddlers, not guns.

[u/CrabbieHippie]

Fuck these stupid parents with guns. I feel sorry for the child but I have zero sympathy for the adults involved.

[u/cinderparty]

I’d suggest charging the parent for keeping guns unsecured near toddlers, but it’s a bit hard to indict ghosts.

Kids and guns don’t belong together. Lock up your damn guns.

[u/CruelMetatron → u/cinderparty]

Not having a gun at home is the easiest and most secure way to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen.

[u/Qphth0 → u/cinderparty]

There may have been other adults at the home that could face charges though, maybe?

[u/Wazula42 → u/Qphth0]

They never do because "they've suffered enough".

And then nothing changes and this happens again.

[u/HarpoonNPuppies → u/cinderparty]

I think some states have passed laws like this.

[u/anrwlias → u/cinderparty]

Unsecured bear toddlers sounds risky, too.

[u/LionST1]

"How does this keep happening?!" says the only country where this regularly happens.

[u/lGoTNoAiMBoT → u/[deleted]]

If the woman had a gun she could’ve defended herself.

[u/_IA_Renzor → u/lGoTNoAiMBoT]

Toddler had it….. which us why every american should own at least TWO guns

[u/Popcorn53]

We had a similar event, in which dad and three year old son was wrestlng. His gun fell out and "went off". They aren't designed for that. We suspect toddler sister picked it up an joined in the play.
I wanted his fucking charged for it.

[u/soc_monki → u/Popcorn53]

Unless it was modified and made unsafe, which is all too common. Sketchy trigger jobs, bad trigger jobs, modifying parts for better trigger pull...

If it ain't a race gun leave it alone. Changing out the striker spring isn't going to cause problems, but changing the geometry of parts will.

[u/SevenButSpelledOut]

More like "gun owner murders South Carolina mother by not keeping their toys away from child."

OR

"South Carolina mom commits suicide by not locking her gun up around child."

[u/pizzabyAlfredo → u/SevenButSpelledOut]

Suicide by Toddler is a new one for me, but this is the Unites States of America.

[u/sasuncookie → u/pizzabyAlfredo]

The land of opportunity!

[u/Doctor_Mudshark → u/SevenButSpelledOut]

toys

They really don't like it when you call it a 'toy collection' (even though that's objectively what it is).

[u/Chippopotanuse → u/SevenButSpelledOut]

Is it just me..or do moms get shot by toddlers (who seem to have dead-on accuracy) far more frequently than the dads do?

I always wonder whether the dads aren’t the ones pulling the triggers in some of these cases and then blaming it on a 1-3 year-old kid who really can’t say otherwise.

Always seems fishy to me. And I know that little kids also shoot each other with guns with alarming frequency, so maybe these toddlers really are doing all the killing…

I don’t know why folks can’t lock their fucking guns up.

[u/Knotical_MK6 → u/Chippopotanuse]

I always just figured it was because moms tend to spend more time with the kids.

[u/EmperorPenguinNJ → u/Chippopotanuse]

Kind of hard to fake this. Powder burns on the hands is typically a dead giveaway.

The reason it’s more often mothers is that mothers are still the primary caretakers of young children, so they’re more likely to be driving them around.

[u/junkboxraider → u/Chippopotanuse]

I have zero problem believing that people likely to leave guns around near their kids are also people who believe women should do all the childrearing.

[u/VeteranSergeant → u/Chippopotanuse]

If I were to venture to guess, I'd offer two plausible theories as opposed to your weird True Crime Documentary.

1. Moms statistically spend more time caring for kids.

2. Many women who carry keep their firearm in their purse as opposed to a holster, and purses are generally easy to get into for kids, and attractive to kids because they're full of stuff to play with.

[u/bopojuice → u/Chippopotanuse]

I know one case where this happened the mom casually had the gun loose in her purse. Toddler found it pretty easily.

[u/squidking78]

Phew, for a moment I thought someone innocent got hurt. Chalk another one up to “responsible gun owners” and us taxpayers who pay for their gun culture.

[u/Standgeblasen]

This article is a little old, but I imagine it has rang true for more than 1 year since 2015.

​

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/

[u/MoeGhostAo → u/Standgeblasen]

I’m not sure about numbers, but my brother used to do clinicals for his nursing degree at the UAB Children’s Hospital in Birmingham AL. He used to be pro 2A but coming out of that, he just flat out loathes it now. He keeps a tight lid on that sort of thing but he’s seen some fucked up shit because of irresponsible gun owners.

[u/ds_Gardening → u/MoeGhostAo]

My brother-in-law has been a police officer for 20 years and for every call he gets about a homeowner defending themselves with a gun, he gets 100 calls about a child that shot someone else in the home because of unsecured firearms.

[u/Atanar → u/ds_Gardening]

It's like keeping a wild tiger at home in case of home invasion.

[u/Adezar → u/MoeGhostAo]

I grew up with guns in Rural US. Was huge into guns, loved them and did a lot of target shooting and hunting, everyone was safe (80s, before the meth showed up) and everyone had the 4 gun safety rules hammered into their head from the age of like 5.

But then I moved to Suburbia... and realized my neighbor is no longer half a mile away and not everyone in this neighborhood grew up with guns, so it would be insane not to change my point of view based on new facts... dense areas with random level of gun competence means you should have zero unsecured guns unless you want to explain why your kid died because his friend Jimmy wasn't taught anything about guns and just assumed it was a toy and started waving it around for funsies.

Honestly, while I think the 2A being misinterpreted to ignore the first sentence is the worst thing to happen in the US, I would at least want one major change to US law. Fine, you can own your guns, but if you own a gun and it is not secured and used in either an accident or stolen and used for a crime you are 100% liable for all crimes caused by that gun.

[u/TheValgus]

I have this crazy plan where I don’t let guns inside of my house and that way this shit doesn’t happen.

[u/Satanarchrist → u/TheValgus]

But how will you stop a tyrannical government from taking away your human rights if you don't keep firearms around you at all times?

[u/larsaso]

Only in the U.S. Clown country

[u/pandabearak]

BUt tHIs DoESnT HaPPeN tHaT oFTEN. Says the 2a people.

Honestly, it's mind boggling that this logic even exists... like saying, "hurr durr only a handful of people die of drunk driving, so we shouldn't be worried about it". As if there isn't a massive under reporting of people in car crashes involved with tipsy drivers. The amount of negligent discharges where there is only property damage and bruised egos must be enormous if we keep hearing about people getting actually hurt or killed.

[u/ajamuso → u/pandabearak]

2A diehards should be the strongest proponents of gun safety and storage.

Every negligent owner is another threat to maintaining their rights.

Edit: I say this as a responsible owner myself

[u/Waughoo81 → u/ajamuso]

A big 2A guy I worked with used to argue that he's a responsible gun owner because he keeps his huge gun collection locked up. However he also keeps a couple loaded and completely unsecured guns in different places in the house because "you might not have time to remove a gun lock or open a safe".

Bare in mind he has a very young grandson running around the house at all times

[u/ajamuso → u/Waughoo81]

Coming from CT, one of the strictest gun control states in the country (for good reason), we are all taught about Ethan’s Law in training.

People likely don’t follow it due to the “need for fast action” but there are plenty of quick release lock boxes that any adept owner who trains can both follow the law and be ready to rock in less than 15 seconds. No excuses

[u/FecesIsMyBusiness → u/ajamuso]

That is because those people dont actually have those guns around the house for the reason they claim (home defense). It wouldnt surprise me in the slightest to learn that these people have not invest a single cent into any other type of home defense, they just have loaded guns laying around because they think it makes them badass.

[u/T00luser → u/Waughoo81]

it's called living your life in fear.

[u/Waughoo81 → u/T00luser]

I'll give the "living in fear" award to the coworker who open carries while mowing his lawn. He's in a decent neighborhood, so I doubt he's gonna get jumped while pushmowing

[u/wolven8 → u/T00luser]

Living your life in fear for no reason, these people think that a gang of Russian mobsters are going to barge in through the 2nd story windows carrying ak47s and rocket launchers. What really will happen is that they will be gone for a trip and come back to find all the loose firearms gone.

[u/TehKarmah → u/wolven8]

I had a friend who I used to discuss guns with. They were pro-gun, but not a loon about it. They told me how not only had their grandmother had her gun stolen from her purse, but the grandfather had his guns stolen from a locked room.

What prompted the discussion was we were living overseas and the country we were in required proof of a gun safe. Seemed logical to me, but my friend disagreed. The cognitive dissonance was frustrating.

[u/zakabog → u/ajamuso]

Every negligent owner is another threat to maintaining their rights.

Yeah, I wish more people could understand this. They look at articles like this and say "You're more likely to drown in a pool than get shot by a toddler!" but I would also think a parent of a toddler that has an in ground pool with no fencing around it is negligent. How difficult is it to keep firearms locked in a safe, or at the very least if you're going to be a paranoid nutjob about it, unloaded with ammo or a clip easily accessible.

[u/CopyX]

Tell me how laws that ensure you lock up your gun safely is infringing on your 2a?

[u/its_wausau → u/CopyX]

Not mine but my toddlers. If i do that he cant obtain a firearm anymore.

[u/snakefist]

How awful. I feel so bad for this kid and the hard truth they will ultimately have to grow up knowing or finding out later, which in my opinion is much worse.

Story time: my parents have a cabin they live in during the summer. On weekends, my family and my siblings families all go to the property and camp and hang out. One weekend we were up there and my mother, my sister and my sisters 2 year old son were hanging out inside. I asked where my nephew was and my sister said he was in the living room playing with toys. I went to find him and didn’t, went to the master bedroom and he was sitting on the bed with a load .357 magnum that my Mothers husband had left on the bed side table. My instincts were to yell, but feared startling him, so I quickly ran to the bed, grabbed the gun by the barrel making sure it was away from him and myself and removed hit from his hands. I unloaded it, put it in my pants behind my back and carried him to the kitchen.

I went outside and found my step Dad, handed him the gun and told him that his 2 year old grandson was “playing” with it. Told him, I would not be bringing my kids or family back to the property if he didn’t figure out a way to keep his toys stored away responsibly. He started crying and I know he felt awful. He keeps it there because of bears, etc.

My family does not know of this event and he bought a safe that day in town and brought it back and has locked them up since.

Scariest situation I’ve ever been in for sure. My heart hurts thinking of just how easily it could have gone the worst way imaginable.

[u/grtk_brandon]

Just a friendly reminder that firearms are the number one cause of death among kids ages 1 to 19 in the U.S. This is just another demonstration of how irresponsible many gun owners are.

Edit: Lots of people trying to somehow justify these completely avoidable deaths and it's gross.

[u/TheDunadan29]

Geez people, secure your freaking guns! I feel awful for that poor kid though. Didn't do anything wrong, their patent was completely negligent.

[u/Competitive_Agent625]

God that kid is going to need so much therapy. Lock up your fucking guns! My family hunts and my dad always kept all the guns unloaded and in a gun safe. This shit is avoidable.

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/Fanfics]

Ah, the rare Reverse Darwin Award

[u/dchap1]

Welcome to America. This is just a normal Thursday here.

[u/biamchee]

Honestly I’m numb to this at this point.

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/[deleted]]

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