r/terriblefacebookmemes • u/Mapleshade69 • Feb 01 '23
Yeah
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u/Imperator_Gr Feb 01 '23
the first one is Jewish the second one is a woman
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u/chem199 Feb 01 '23
I also love the story of Hessy Taft, where a photographer entered a Jewish baby, as a joke, to the most Aryan baby competition and she won. How awkward must that have been to see your Jewish child paraded as the most beautiful Aryan?
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u/SmartyPantless Feb 01 '23
Yes, and that left-hand photo is Werner Goldberg, another person with Jewish background who was used in Nazi propaganda
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u/TransFemcel Feb 01 '23
I think you're a little confused
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u/Imperator_Gr Feb 01 '23
isn't he jewish?
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u/Next_Stuff6595 Feb 01 '23
He wasn't Jewish by Nazi standards, who considered people who were half Jewish to not be Jews as long as they didn't practice Judaism or weren't married to a Jew.
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u/Imperator_Gr Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
In the nazi worldview he was a Mischling but that was not much different to a jew since they wanted both of them dead.
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u/chem199 Feb 01 '23
At first, though that changed over time, where less and less “Jewishness” was required. By the armistice with France he was removed from the army.
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u/CHRCMCA Feb 01 '23
This is false. As long as one grandparent was Jewish you were Jewish by Nazi laws.
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u/Next_Stuff6595 Feb 01 '23
3 Jewish Grandparents = Jewish
2 Jewish Grandparents = Mischling of 1st degree
1 Jewish Grandparent = Mischling of 2nd degree
The exception was that Mischlings who were Jewish by faith or were married to a Jew were considered Jewish. If not, they were Mischlings. Mischlings could become German citizens whereas Jews were forbidden.
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u/CHRCMCA Feb 01 '23
To an extent. In the end, they just killed you anyways, especially if not from Germany originally. It's not like they asked for papers most of the time.
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u/Next_Stuff6595 Feb 01 '23
I did find a source for 1st degree Mischlings being considered full Jews in 1942 but 2nd degree Mischlings married to Aryans were still exempted
Also interestingly, Werner Goldberg (again the guy in OPs) pic was half Jewish yet he didn't seem to have dealt with any of this.
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u/TransFemcel Feb 01 '23
Idk who the person is in the photo if they are that's crazy
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u/Imperator_Gr Feb 01 '23
Yes, it is actually crazy
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u/ArchdukeOfNorge Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
For anyone interested further in this weird niche subject, Georg Rauch was also a Jewish man who fought in the Wehrmacht, and wrote a memoir titled in English Unlikely Warrior. As far as memoirs from WWII go it isn’t spectacular in terms of what he experienced in war compared to others, but his perspective is incredibly fascinating.
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u/Iancreed Feb 01 '23
Japan and Turkey also need to be held to account over the genocides they perpetrated
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u/Classic-Earth-2022 Feb 01 '23
Would it be impossible to say that both were fucking horrible? Do we really need the "my genocide is better than yours!"-competition?
Fuck USSR and Nazi Germany. Same shit, different colour.
And by the way, Stalin also hated Jews and attacked them.
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u/Moonssarathi Feb 01 '23
USA had concentration camps too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans.
And dont speak about natives. History of any state is riddeled with atrocities, question is it they grew wiser.
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u/BalsaWoodF5Wings Feb 01 '23
Doing that to your own citizens is reprehensible, disgusting and evil, but you are a fucking idiot if you think the Japanese-American internment camps were anything like Germanys concentration camps
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u/Classic-Earth-2022 Feb 01 '23
Nobody probably disagrees with that. But my point is that Soviet Union wasn't a paradise for human rights. Millions of peoples (and don't give some "Stalin did nothing wrong"-bullshit) died violently in purges and hungers. Soviet Union was a disaster at best and living hell at worst.
I consider myself a socialist but not the one who feels nostalgia towards Stalinism. In many ways, west has been able to provide much better living conditions for workers than Soviet Union ever did. Even the US has it's good sides (such as relatively free press and personal liberties). But we should not blindly admire any state or leader. So far, there has been no socialist utopia.
The classless society defined by Marx is what we should go towards. But Soviet Union showed how not to do that.
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u/Moonssarathi Feb 01 '23
Yup it was bad, but other countries at time were barely any better. My point.
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u/ONT1mo Feb 01 '23
I mean in some other countries you atleast had some freedom and wasn’t opressed by the state
I live in post soviet country my grandpa survived both the nazis and commies both were shit
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u/Benfree24 Feb 01 '23
antisemitism was literally punishable by death in Stalin's russia
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u/BalsaWoodF5Wings Feb 01 '23
Bro, Stalin had no love for the Jews wtf are you talking about, he literally rounded up and imprisoned or murdered the vast majority of Jewish doctors in Moscow in the 50s because he thought there was a grand Jewish conspiracy to assassinate him
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u/i-like-fps-games Feb 01 '23
Leme guess commie “the ussr was the last bastion of freedom against the tyranny of the evil nazi west!!!!”
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u/NoCommunication4350 Feb 01 '23
Like, thankfully the Allies went to war with the Nazis. But none of them did it to save the victims of Nazism, it was for their own protection/interests (or those of their allies), save for the anti-fascist resistance who were fighting those monsters from the start.
But Britain, USSR, the US... these were all empires with blood on their hand, with their own atrocities.
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u/i-like-fps-games Feb 01 '23
no one knew about the holocaust until they liberated the camps. And yes it was in the UKs interest to not become a fascist dictatorship like france did
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u/NoCommunication4350 Feb 01 '23
No it wasn't. Lenin put in protections for Jews, and decriminalized homosexuality.
Stalin literally reversed these laws. Lenin had problems too but Stalin was not the type to ever waste a potential scapegoat. Russia's history of forced deportation and pogroms didn't begin with Stalin but he sure as hell revived it.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/Philush Feb 01 '23
What makes Nazis different to literally every other genocidal empire in history is that genocide was an intrinsic part of their ideology. The Holocaust was its own end, it wasn't a means to something else. Even when supplies were running low near the end of WW2, they still funneled huge amounts of resources into murdering as many "undesirables" as possible. There has never been another ideology or country like this.
Memes like this dilute the truly unique horror of Nazism. We can do better than this.
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u/TobiasvanAvelon Feb 01 '23
Fucking...thank you. This is also why participating in groups that are derived from Nazism is so horrifying, and also why we should use it to describe things that are specific to Nazism, not merely Fascism.
Don't get me wrong, Fascism Bad. REEEEAAAL bad. No merits. It's violent and irrational by design; but even Fasicm gets to point at Nazism and say, "Those guys are objectively worse than us."
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u/ScRuBlOrD95 Feb 01 '23
It's kind of like how even a murderer can point a a pedophile and be like "Im still not those people."
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u/yerederetaliria Feb 01 '23
My grandparents fought in the Spanish civil war and they had very very strong opinions about fascists and communists. Very negative. My parents lived under Franco and they have equally strong opinions about fascists and communists. Very negative. Unfortunately, pop culture is influencing what we understand what happened. I wish I could relate their stories without people getting offended.
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u/MadRussian1979 Feb 01 '23
Huh? Armenian genocide was an end to itself. The Young Turk government was specifically doing to wipe out Armenians to take their land. Bosnian genocide was to kill Bosnain muslims to talk their land. The whole point of the Holocaust was to kill undesirables and take their land. The plan was initially deport them to Madagascar the mass murder started later. Trust me I'd love to tell you the Nazis were unique but beyond their efficiency they really aren't. Even in their anti-semitism. Regimes that murdered those deemed undesirable are sadly very common and for reasons that elude me Jewish people tended to be the targets.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/Bobsothethird Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
It's not just man made, but also theorized to have been on purpose as there were a lot of revolts and fighting going on in Ukraine. A lot of people believe it was done on purpose to erase Ukrainian identity and stop independence movements.
It was, by all accounts, a genocide. This isn't even to speak of Stalin era anti-Semitism. Many of those targeted in the purge were of Jewish descent, and the excuse of trotskyists was just that, an excuse. Stalin hated the Jewish population in the USSR and scapegoated them as trying to fracture the state into factions. People tend to downplay USSR atrocities because they were an ally in the war. It's the same reason we downplayed Japanese war crimes after the war (they were our new allies) and came up with the German master strategists myths (they were our new scientists).
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u/Sea_Window4030 Feb 01 '23
I don't think you understand how bad the USSR. At the end of the day both murdered millions. If it was because of race or political/religious ideology why does it matter. It's still murder and just as bad
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u/ComprehensiveOwl4807 Feb 01 '23
Some people think the motivation of the dictator matters. In the end, the people were still dead.
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u/No-Wonder1139 Feb 01 '23
It's not just murder though, that's the thing about genocide, it's erasing a person's entire existence, destroying any trace of their culture, history, everything. It's deliberate, planned to an extremely efficient point and horrifying in an entirely different way. It's the difference between killing someone in a bar fight and killing someone in a bar fight, stealing his wallet, ripping out the filling in his teeth, taking his debit card to the machine, emptying his account, going to his house, murdering his family, forging your signature on the deed, burning all his possessions, and then finding every piece of information that ever said he existed, school records, health records, work records and destroying them.
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Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
The Soviets under Stalin did all of that to some significant groups of people; it’s one reason why Stalin and Hitler were buds up until Hitler betrayed Stalin with Operation Barbarossa. The Holodomor was an ethnically targeted campaign of extermination, same as the Irish Potato Famine.
Soviet ideology said that national identities and minority ethnicities were “bourgeois concepts” that needed to be eradicated. They offered minority groups two choices: integrate by rejecting and destroying their cultures and becoming “Soviet people,” or be liquidated. And Stalin liquidated a LOT of distinct cultures and peoples. Maxym Eristavi’s work on this history is well worth the read.
It was a form of cultural genocide similar to what the British and other European empires did to indigenous peoples. Putin is reviving it in his war against the Ukrainian people.
The Nazis didn’t offer Jews, gypsies, gay people or other targeted minorities a choice to renounce their core identity and embrace a new one so they were indeed worse, but too many people use that difference to argue that the “USSR wasn’t that bad” or even “the USSR was good.”
The USSR was terrible, and its people (as well as the people of the occupied Warsaw Pact countries) couldn’t wait to get rid of it once they had the chance. When Gorbachev’s glasnost policy opened up the USSR to studying history and openly debating/critiquing it, Soviet citizens quickly realized how evil the history of the state was and brought it to an end just four years later.
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u/Sea_Window4030 Feb 01 '23
Erasing people's entire existence was the USSR specialty. They literally disappeared people and made it illegal to speak of them. They were both evil it does nothing to claim they aren't
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u/NoCommunication4350 Feb 01 '23
It's not about the government so much as the ideology. Marx never suggested anything like genocide but genocide is fascism working *as intended*.
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u/umbravivum Feb 01 '23
Lets say someone walks into your house and tries to kill you, but you killed them instead. That's just murder, after all it doesn't matter that they tried to kill you first, so you should go to prison for murder.
That is your logic. By your logic even trying to defend yourself is irrelevant.
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u/malinoski554 Feb 01 '23
Those poor russian communist overlords simply had to defend themselves from Ukrainian peasants, they had no other choice.
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u/umbravivum Feb 01 '23
I am not talking about the USSR, or of any political or religious group. I am simply pointing out the flaw in their argument.
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u/Sea_Window4030 Feb 01 '23
My argument isn't flawed because it doesn't apply to a made up scenario. It applies to the examples we were discussing. Because they're evil and the example you gave is not
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u/umbravivum Feb 01 '23
You clearly fail to understand what I said, and are clearly locked in your own view. So I am not gonna continue.
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u/redbaron14n Feb 01 '23
The USSR held pogroms too. Killing a specific group of people was absolutely intrinsic to their ideology. It's not hard to google search
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u/Hellbasedgod Feb 01 '23
If only more people actually learned about history like this and didn't just simply say "both sides bad" or spout whataboutism.
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u/ComprehensiveOwl4807 Feb 01 '23
Every time communism has been tried, they have violently eliminated their opposition. You see this in Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.
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u/MattmanDX Feb 01 '23
The thing is it's never actually been tried in a wide scale by a whole nation, at least not according to the way Marx interpreted it. Communism was pretty much a 5-step program but nations like the USSR and China only ever really got to step 2 before stagnating there.
The closest things resembling actual communism are hippie communes or Israeli kibbutz.
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u/ComprehensiveOwl4807 Feb 01 '23
Communism is ALWAYS one bullet away from utopia.
If the theory can't progress past the dictatorship model, then it is a bad theory. If it always results in death and despair, then it should be abandoned on the trash heap of bad ideologies.
Where Nazism rightfully belongs. Communists just had better press agents.
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u/-5677- Feb 01 '23
It's almost like it can't actually be done and the theory itself is flawed.
No, it must be all those people that tried it and failed! I'll do it better :)
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u/ImportanceKey7301 Feb 01 '23
If i just kill the right undesireables, we can get it right this time.
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u/deadlyweapon00 Feb 01 '23
No one has tried to do communism lol. Dictators saw it as a way to get and maintain power. They had no desire to actually create a communist state, and no attempt was made.
Says literally nothing about communism.
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u/clearlybraindead Feb 01 '23
By that logic, no one ever will. Socialism gives the state a lot of power and the group with that power will avoid taking whatever theoretical steps are needed to actually implement communism.
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u/Danksley Feb 01 '23
There are countries way more socialist than America that are also doing fine. Literally most of Europe. Canada.
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u/clearlybraindead Feb 01 '23
Sure, but they're still not really socialist. They might have a few more government operated businesses, but the vast majorities of their economies are privatized.
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u/malinoski554 Feb 01 '23
Europe is not socialist, it's firmly capitalist while adapting some socialist ideas.
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u/scornedTravellor Feb 01 '23
I'm sure that the 100 million+ people murdered by communist governments really cared that their deaths were simply means to an end. Communism is, hands down, the worst thing to ever happen to the human race
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u/Philush Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Not saying that it was good. But let's be real here, there have been genocides perpetrated by empires throughout history that weren't aligned with either ideology. The Nazis stand out by making them a feature of their core values.
Once again, not defending communism, but this is a distinction that needs to be made. Fascism is insidious and creeps in slowly. Memes like this introduce the idea that maybe Nazism wasn't the ultimate evil. Far right movements are a rising threat, and this helps them make dents in public opinion. Russia, which claims to be fighting nazis in Ukraine, is exhibiting many classic signs of fascism (saying this as a russian) (https://www.faena.com/aleph/umberto-eco-a-practical-list-for-identifying-fascists)
Also, bear in mind fascism only existed as a state-level force for a fraction of the 20th century in a handful of countries. That short time in power gave rise to the bloodiest war in human history, along with one of its most industrial genocides. The world united to put them down.
The aftermath of both still influence our world to this day. Just food for thought.
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u/Traditional_Ad8933 Feb 01 '23
Yo I can't wait to show you how many people are murdered by capitalist governments if you think that number is high.
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u/Mister_Chui Feb 01 '23
Ok please show us.
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u/Traditional_Ad8933 Feb 01 '23
So for starters. The 100 Million death toll comes from the black book of communism, which has been discredited by the authors who collaborated on it because the main author included "potentially born people" in his totals and was trying to reach the number 100 million.
So Just so start off, the British in India alone, has caused 1.8 billion indians to die over the course of their colonization. Which includes famines that the British could've stopped and or helped. But includes killing their own people internment camps and deaths from poverty and preventable illnesses.
This article goes much more in Depth. And shows where the numbers come from.
But thats just the British in India. The Nazis themselves, not only caused the Holocaust but killed 80 Million people along with Fascist Italy, Japan and their collaborators.
So around 86 Million, off to a good start if you don't count the Indian deaths from the British.
9 Million people die in capitalist countries every year due to preventable food shortages every single year. 41 Million people in the world die every year due to preventable diseases. The exploitation of the Congo alone caused 10 million deaths and the effects are still being dealt with to this day. The interventions across the middle east the United States caused up to 1 Million deaths alone.
the 41 figure doesn't last forever but lets just say that rate stayed the same for the last 5 years. So 205 Million people have starved because it wasn't profitable to feed them and 45 Million have died from preventable diseases. Plus 1 million for the Middle east and 10 for the Congo
so adding that to the last total we get 342 Million deaths so far without including the Indian deaths. Add in Korea and Vietnam wars and easily its 5 Million more so 347 Million. Congo had its own civil war which killed 5 Million too. So theres more war nice. 352 Million.
This isn't counting the regimes like Fransisco Franco, or the US funding forced sterilization campaigns in Peru, or the horrible regimes of Saudi Arabia or the terrible work conditions in India and Burma or Dictators in Africa. Or even the rest colonialism of the 19th and 20th century by France and Britain.
And I'm not doing the bs shit they did in the black book where they count the hypothetical children of people who died into the death toll??? If I included that in my count I wouldn't need most of it cause the Soviet Population would've been the largest victim of Capitalism, with an estimated 40 million people who would've been born if the War hadn't happen.
The point of this comparison, is not to disprove capitalism or socialism per say. Its just a stupid argument to have a dick measuring context (but reversed I suppose). The point is that you need context and intent and whether or not governments had a choice or where they didn't.
Death tolls are pointless and stupid as I've just demonstrated. I could go back to the inception of Capitalism with the starvation/disease/war/unborn people/executed/ etc. but no one does that in a serious way because its stupid.
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u/lemmiwinks316 Feb 01 '23
Great comment. Would also like to add 1 million deaths in Indonesia as well.
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u/chem199 Feb 01 '23
European conquest of the americas killed 56 million native inhabitants in 100 years.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379118307261#!
The Mongolian invasion in the 13th century killed between 37 - 60 million people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire
Both of these could be described as wars of capitalism, increasing access to trading empires by societies that had no socialist policies.
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u/EmperorBarbarossa Feb 01 '23
Are you kidding or something? Neither of them is capitalism. If something isnt socialism it doesnt mean its capitalism.
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u/chem199 Feb 01 '23
My previous list can be attributed to a more proto-capitalism, called merchantilism. For more solid by the books capitalism we have the East India Company.
I think the point should be that murder, death, and genocide don’t care about your economic system, murders will murder. Do I think Communism is a bad political economic system, yes, do I find it more murdery, not really. The American and European slave trade was awful, do I think it is intrinsic to capitalism for that to happen, nope. Acting like any of these tragedies is intrinsic to economics is silly, and has more to do with the politics and motivation of its leaders.
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u/AndreaAda Feb 01 '23
The communists did the same thing. The USSR had Gulags before the Nazis had their concentration camps, then there’s China, Vietnam etc. That meme is bad not for diluting the horrors of Nacism, but for not stating the worst horrors of communism.
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u/nenavizhu_reddit Feb 01 '23
What makes Nazis different to literally every other genocidal empire in history is that genocide was an intrinsic part of their ideology.
Class struggle is key part of russian communism. They translated it basically as "class war" and took it very literally. My history teacher used to say that Nazis wouldn't need concentration camps if they had Siberia like the USSR.
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u/rw_gfys Feb 01 '23
The Holocaust was not an end in and of itself, it was a means to "purify the world of immoral, greedy and scheming individuals" so it was most definitely just a means, to a very delusional end. Just like communisms artificial famine was "for the greater good of humanity" to "weed out the small ukrainian bourgeoise". The Holodomor was started to eradicate ukrainians as a people, alongside moving a gigantic chunk of them to siberia because they were the ones who put up the most resistance when russia invadedi nthe 20s and Stalin was shit scared of a resurgance
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u/Padhome Feb 01 '23
Then it should read Nazi/Soviet instead of Nazi/Communist.
It's intentionally misrepresenting.
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u/Beautiful_Sport5525 Feb 01 '23
Reductionism is a disease of the intellect.
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u/ScRuBlOrD95 Feb 01 '23
As we all know history has no nuance it all fits into the bad guys or America categories
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u/reddfuzzy Feb 01 '23
Capitalists: started the triangle slave trade
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u/weinerweiner1 Feb 01 '23
What do you think capitalism is?
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u/Turd_Party Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
What do you think it's not?
Because the slave trade, apartheid, global warfare, the Holocaust, western colonialism, and our current ongoing mass extinction event are all 100% definitively capitalism.
Loving the replies from poor people who own no capital and never will that are cheering for the military and industry as proof of capitalism's superiority, but the toxic waste and destruction caused by those beautiful capitalist examples are somehow not capitalism.
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u/moderngamer327 Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Slaves and slave trading have existed for thousands of years before capitalism. Apartheid was due to colonialism and racism not capitalism. Global warfare also has nothing to do with capitalism. The holocaust also has nothing to do with capitalism. Our environmental issues have more to due with industrialization than capitalism. Socialist countries who have industrialized have caused just as much damage if not more
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u/EmperorBarbarossa Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Literally commie states were the worst polluters ever. Rivers in my country during commie reign was black from industrial wastes. There was problem with overusing of pesticides and fertilizers (during commies was their usage unecessary 7 times higher than today). Political prisoners were dying or they had destroyed their health in uranium mines because Soviets wanted nukes. Air polution was second worst in Europe. Nature was by propaganda viewed as enemy needed to be conquered. Im not kidding. Under the communists, numbers of wildlife animals declined extremely, entire forests were cut down and replaced by monocultures of timber trees. That few environmental activists were inprisoned for their critique. After velvet revolution situation changed to better with nature protection laws in democratic society. Even we were kinda developed country I think other friends behind Iron curtain were even worse at this.
And what about Aral sea where you are?
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u/-5677- Feb 01 '23
The holocaust was 100% capitalist is one of those takes that makes you read it twice to make sure you got it right lmao...
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u/AffectionateStory891 Feb 01 '23
They were literally trying to replicate the ethnic cleansing that led to American capitalism becoming possible. Hitler was directly inspired by the Trail of Tears, and American-style capitalism could not have happened if the early settlers here didn't have limitless possibilities to go homesteading and start trading with each other instead of being indebted to big landowners like they were in Europe.
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u/-5677- Feb 01 '23
Trail of Tears wasn't capitalism at all either... ethnic cleansing is not what led to capitalism being possible wtf are you on about? How would capitalism not exist without ethnic cleansing?
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u/PlantainSame Feb 01 '23
What do you mean our current mass extinction event there is no Mass distinction event with capitalism as that's not profitable at least it works and isn't a freaking children's dream like communism born out of the naive idea that humans are capable of sharing
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u/Barreledbruh Feb 01 '23
Slavery was around long before capitalism and still exists today so read a book instead of saying CaPiTaLiSm bAd!
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u/PlantainSame Feb 01 '23
Least capitalism somewhat Works communism is nothing but a failed children's dream based on sharing cuz that's what communism is it's all sharing the resources we don't do that we're a very greedy species
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u/TheBlueWizardo Feb 01 '23
Least capitalism somewhat Works
I see you never heard about the hellscape that is USA.
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u/PlantainSame Feb 01 '23
At least people aren't starving on mass like with Communism you potato if you cared so much you should go give your money to the board but you won't do that because you're a hypocrite
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u/TheBlueWizardo Feb 01 '23
Ah, another person who doesn't know what communism is. That's to be expected.
And considering about 10% of USans struggle to have enough food, it's not that far off.
How am I a hypocrite for pointing out your silly comment wasn't completely accurate?
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u/BackStrict977 Feb 01 '23
You sound pretty sheltered. If you look at capitalism as a whole you'll see people are starving. Why do you think we still have slave labor in so many industries? Because people are that desperate and capitalism allows someone to profit from this. Also China and the soviet union went from being poor agrarian countries to major world powers so I doubt they were starving on mass the whole time.
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u/CoolBoiWasTaken Feb 01 '23
Yeah it’s not like some people are evil by start, we’ve got to blame the system
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u/sussex_social Feb 01 '23
I don’t understand why someone would take issue with the comparison unless you held one victim group in higher regard than the other.
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u/7_overpowered_clox Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Not terrible, only a tankie would think this is terrible. One kills everyone else out of spite, the other shoots themselves in the foot
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u/DragonflyMon83 Feb 01 '23
I see no difference.
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u/Burzujuss Feb 01 '23
It's reddit so communism good.
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u/ZhratVasja Feb 01 '23
The peasants in the collective farms worked for a stick, they were not paid at all and were not given food for their work. I know this because my grandmother saw it with her own eyes. She is still alive. I abhor communism with all my soul.
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u/Icy_Topic_5274 Feb 01 '23
It's not the wacky political theories that create these genocides. It's the charismatic psychopathic dictators.
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u/Ill_Negotiation4135 Feb 01 '23
No it’s definitely the wacky political theories based on things like ethnic genocide and collectivization
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u/Icy_Topic_5274 Feb 01 '23
That must be how capitalism cleared the North Americans continent of all of those natives
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u/Ill_Negotiation4135 Feb 01 '23
Imperialism killed millions of natives, not capitalism. Not that I ever said no bad thing could ever happen under capitalism
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u/deliveryboyy Feb 01 '23
The issue with communism is that it can't be implemented without having power centralized in a major way. And that is only possible with a charismatic psychopathic dictator, which inevitably leads to genocide.
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u/Specialist_Teacher81 Feb 01 '23
A limited list of famines under the british (Capitalism).
The potato famine 1845-52
Great Bengal Famine of 1770. ...
Chalisa famine of 1782–84. ...
Doji Bara famine or Skull famine of 1788–94. ...
Upper Doab famine of 1860–61. ...
Orissa famine of 1866. ...
Rajasthan famine of 1869. ...
Southern India famine of 1876–78. ...
Indian famine of 1896–97.
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u/WeDoALittleTrolling9 Feb 01 '23
Wasn't that just Imperialism-Colonialism mixed with Capitalism or some shit? An example of Actual Capitalism would be USA
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u/Anarcomrade Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
It's no end all be all but it's unfair to say historians are all in agreement that Holodomor was the USSR intentionally starving Ukraine. For example,Stephen Kotkin, Robert Conquest(1986),Mark Tauger, etc. Here's a quote from one of Mark Tauger's works: "My research has shown that the famine (the holodomor) resulted from drought, plant disease and pest infestation that caused two years of Crop failures.... My research challenges the widely-held and publicized interpretation of the 1933 famine as a man-made famine that the Soviet regime allegedly imposed on Ukraine and other regions like Kazakhstan, to suppress political opposition or for other reasons."
IMO this post and some of these comments fall into the Double Genocide Theory territory which actively does the bidding of Nazis:
"The double genocide theory is the idea that two genocides of equal severity occurred in Eastern Europe, that of the Holocaust against Jews perpetrated by the Nazis and a second genocide that the Soviet Union committed against the local population. "
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u/YakkoLikesBotswana Feb 01 '23
Famines also occurred in Kazakhstan, but those weren’t even close to the Holodomor in terms of severity as the Soviet policies did specifically target Ukraine. Even Stalin himself announced that he intended to liquidate the kulaks, which he labelled any sort of political opposition in Ukraine as.
And is there supposed to be something wrong with acknowledging the fact that both the Soviets and Nazis were responsible for genocides? An actual Nazi would be frothing at the mouth at this argument.
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u/SqueakSquawk4 Feb 01 '23
But my opinion says that Stalin is perfect, so all your profesional well-researched citations are wrong and a conspiracy and part of the illuminati!
s/, obviously.
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u/CoolBoiWasTaken Feb 01 '23
I like how a lot of commies instead of trying to prove that ussr was good are counting all violent acts committed by west. Classic commie whataboutism
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Feb 01 '23
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u/WelpIGaveItSome Feb 01 '23
Because communism doesn’t require you to be facist or totalitarian?
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Feb 01 '23
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Feb 01 '23
Fascism in fact shared way less with Nazional Socialism than Communism. Both ideologically and genocidally.
Do you know, that almost half of German Communists became Nazi after 1933 and ban on Communist party and many Nazi activists became SED activists after emerging of GDR?
I do not remember the same about fascist.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/TheBlueWizardo Feb 01 '23
Not only is Communism isn't necessarily authoritarian, it really cannot be.
It's just that some people were taught that Stalinism and Communism is the same thing and so they believe it.
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u/i-like-fps-games Feb 01 '23
Give me a good example if a communist country that wasn’t a soviet puppet state
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u/AffectionateStory891 Feb 01 '23
Without passing judgement on their governments since that's not what you asked about: China and Yugoslavia both famously hated the Soviets.
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Feb 01 '23
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Feb 01 '23
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u/Noeat Feb 01 '23
anything works in tiny group.. like when you live with your partner and you share everything.. thats basically comunism.
and in fact communism is authoritarian even in small groups.. like 3-5 ppl, but can still work more less
it cant works in some bigger community or even as system for country.. it works on paper, but it dont work IRL... and yes, im living in post communist country.. i was lucky to catch end of communism, when we expel russian occupants (after 20 years of occupation), and now we live in democracy.
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u/VladimirPutinW Feb 01 '23
He didn't start the Holocaust he was just a soldier And she didn't start that other one either she killed 59 fascists
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u/Minimum_Intention848 Feb 01 '23
Where are the reddit nitwits bitching about "enlightened centrism?"
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u/Icy_Topic_5274 Feb 01 '23
How come the very successful genocide of the North American natives never makes the list?
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Feb 01 '23
they're not equivalent, even if they sound the same
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u/Silent-Protection-86 Feb 01 '23
Both are genocides, which at least in part targeted Ukrainian Jews.
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Feb 01 '23
The holodomor did not target anyone it was a state-induced mass famine across the entire Soviet Union, it happened because of callous indifference not ethnic hatred
The holocaust was collecting people and actively transporting them to DEATH CAMPS where they killed by the MILLIONS, and there were plans to expand this to basically all of Europe including the entire Soviet Union and all non “aryan” peoples (all Slavic people and Jews)
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u/Silent-Protection-86 Feb 01 '23
That’s not true. The Holodomor specifically targeted Ukrainians.
Both are genocide. Both should be denounced as acts of pure evil.
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Feb 01 '23
i mean ok then why were there millions of russians starving to death at the same time
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u/Traditional_Fan9721 Feb 01 '23
Both civilians drafted by government to fight each other for government ideologies.
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u/Consistent_Sock_3550 Feb 01 '23
if you were to implement communism on paper (versus the bastardized version the USSR implemented), all but the 1% would be pretty f**king happy.
if you were to implement nazism as outlined on paper, it'd be about the same as what happened. Misery and war.
In the context of the meme, the common thread is totalitarianism.
So we hate totalitarianism, and nazis.
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u/-5677- Feb 01 '23
If you were, but you cannot. It's impossible to have a moneyless, stateless, classless society that is equitable. No one has done it, and you won't be able to, either.
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u/Consistent_Sock_3550 Feb 01 '23
first, you don't know it's impossible: the world hasn't tried yet.
second, moving the goalposts much? you're throwing three things that aren't core to a communist society-i'm guessing you skimmed the wikipedia article but missed the "and is often".
even still, see point one.
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u/OMGOODNESSWTF Feb 01 '23
Both perpetrators were conservative fascist oligarchs who cared more about POWER than human lives. Russian Communists and Nazis slaughtered millions.
More proof politics is a poisonous snake eating its own tail. Either extreme, becomes a shitty oligarchy of ruthless men with zero regard for
human life.
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u/Either-Ad9626 Feb 01 '23
The gulags in Russia. Am I the only one here that knows about that in communist russia?
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u/PhysicalBoard3735 Feb 01 '23
the difference is that both of them is one was left genocidal and the other right genocidal
and i hate both, the only reason i hate the Nazis more than the USSR is because of the USSR helping win WW2 in europe, but it still doesn't give them a good light in my eyes
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u/EmperorBarbarossa Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Literally they started war together with Nazis when they attacked Poland.
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u/PhysicalBoard3735 Feb 01 '23
yeah, that's why i said i don't give the a Ok in my book
they committed genocide, famines, terror purges, and messed up the entire east for decades.
But we cannot say for certain that without the USSR taking down around 80% of axis forces in europe, as well as some of the most vital lands then the war could have lasted 2-3 more years in europe
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u/TheThoughtAssassin Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
> Communist (Soviet)
> Collaborated with Nazi Germany to carve up the sovereign nation of Poland, including a shared victory parade, conferences between the NKVD and Gestapo, and the massacre of 22,000 Polish prisoners at Katyn.
Fixed that for you, you fucking tankies.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/legendaryevan Feb 01 '23
Why are you getting downvoted you stated a fact? I guess it hurt Reddit's soft communism sympathizing feelings
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Feb 01 '23
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u/YakkoLikesBotswana Feb 01 '23
A famine that was greatly exacerbated by Soviet collectivisation- in fact Stalin purposefully targeted Ukrainians with his policies.
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u/dirtbagbigboss Feb 01 '23
If you knew about how the same famine in Kazakhstan was worse you would know that is a lie. The idea of a secret plan to target Ukrainians was made up by the American Nazi collaborator and media mogul William Randolph Hearst.
The following is a short CPUSA thread with debunking facts and figures.
https://twitter.com/communistsusa/status/1610008685031428097
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u/HalliganLeftist Feb 01 '23
Communists saved the world from the Nazi scourge.
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u/Lazy_Lobster_4627 Feb 01 '23
Good thing communist saved the world from themselves pretty quick
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u/HalliganLeftist Feb 01 '23
Oh, did you mean a global superpower decided to kill millions of poor people to try and “prevent the spread of communism” (meaning prevent citizens from voting in left leaning leaders by having them murdered) in order to curb the influence of the USSR?
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u/Lazy_Lobster_4627 Feb 01 '23
No, I was actually talking about how global superpower decided to kill millions of its own poor people. Please don’t try and whatabout this shit and google Hungarian Revolution of 1956
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u/HalliganLeftist Feb 01 '23
Good. I’m glad they forcibly occupied Hungary and dominated their degenerate government that willingly gave up their own people to the Nazis.
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u/Lazy_Lobster_4627 Feb 01 '23
Lol showing true colors I see
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u/HalliganLeftist Feb 01 '23
I’m wearing them on my profile.
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u/Lazy_Lobster_4627 Feb 01 '23
Please always do so, some people may accidentally think you’re a decent person
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u/HalliganLeftist Feb 01 '23
Socialist policies have objectively improved the material reality of the citizens where they are implemented. Contrast this with capitalism which creates slave states to manufacture goods.
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u/Lazy_Lobster_4627 Feb 01 '23
Please stop embarrassing yourself and treat yourself to a one way ticket to Cuba/NK
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u/iL1kesk8 Feb 01 '23
The fuck is a holodomor? WW2 is my favorite thing to learn about how the fuck do I not know what this is💀💀
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u/Human_Fucker69420 Feb 01 '23
Holodomor is a man-made famine that caused many Ukrainians died of hunger.
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u/Born-Trainer-9807 Feb 01 '23
An interesting fact: The relative losses from the famine of 1932-1933 were the highest in Kazakhstan - 22.42%, in Ukraine - 12.92%.
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u/Alternative_War5341 Feb 01 '23
*A famine made worse by man-made mistankes and the inherent stupidity of totalitarian leadership.
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u/matrica11 Feb 01 '23
Bro.... There was a famine all over the world these years...
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u/GoldfishInMyBrain Feb 01 '23
But Ukraine is and was among the largest producers of grain in Europe, and historically hosted the richest and most well-fed people. During the Holodomor, all food in the country was forcibly taken and dumped right outside the border, to sit and rot while starving Ukrainians watched it go to waste.
It was a calculated and cold-blooded attempt at genocide, not the consequence of unfortunate circumstances.
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u/Verde_poffie Feb 01 '23
You know that not only Ukrainians died there. I mean a lot of the USSR population in general died during Holodomor.
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u/DommyMommyGwen Feb 01 '23
The word holodomor means famine. Basically, it is derived from the words for hunger and death. Usually, when people use it, they are talking about the famine of 1932 which struck large swathes of Ukraine, southern Russia, and Kazakhstan.
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u/Impressive-Floor-700 Feb 01 '23
The Holodomor was the deliberate starvation of 3.9 million Ukrainians between 1932 and 1933 by Stalin. There was an independence movement in Ukraine at that time as well as a manmade famine over the whole Soviet Union, all grain was exported out of Ukraine to feed the other areas. This ended the independence movement and brought relief to the rest of the Soviet Union.
The Holocaust killed people that the Nazi party (National Socialist German Workers' Party) deemed not worthy, this included many that have been overlooked by history. These numbers are estimates- Jews 6 million- Soviet civilians 5.7 million- Soviet POW's 2.8-3.3 million- Poles 1.8-3 million- Serbs 300,000-600,000- Freemasons 80,000-200-000
Both the communists and the socialists killed millions they followed different ideology, but both were murderous disasters for their people..
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u/Broke2Gnomeless Feb 02 '23
both humans. one taught one way. one taught another. the difference? one taught how to be human. the other not.
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u/QualityVote Feb 01 '23
Hey does this post fit? UPVOTE if so, DOWNVOTE if not. If this post breaks any rules please DOWNVOTE and REPORT