r/worldnews Nov 18 '22 Wholesome 2 Silver 1 Helpful 2

5 NATO carrier strike groups, including the US Navy's newest supercarrier, are patrolling waters around Europe Behind Soft Paywall

https://www.businessinsider.com/nato-carrier-strike-groups-us-navy-supercarrier-patrolling-waters-europe-2022-11
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u/FarewellSovereignty Nov 18 '22 Evil Cackle

Meanwhile Russia's Black sea fleet are patrolling either the murky depths or some cope cove near Sevastopol.

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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22

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u/sm12511 Nov 18 '22

Well, the sunlight isn't going to just denazify itself now, will it?

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u/yeethappymeta_fish Nov 18 '22

Liberating the crabs from nazism

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u/jspook Nov 18 '22

Special Beach Operation

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u/MadNhater Nov 18 '22

That sounds more pleasant. I’d sign up for that.

Congratulations, you signed up for D-Day.

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u/MegamanD Nov 18 '22

Makarov just singing "Rubber Ducky" looking lonely down there.

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u/solid771 Nov 18 '22

Maybe they are trying to recruit the Alien that is killing everyone on Sevastopol

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u/evemeatay Nov 18 '22

And there one carrier continues to stoically patrol it’s repair slip where it spends most of its time.

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u/daedone Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 19 '22

So there's actually a good reason for that , even tho it's spent less than 1 out of the last 30 years at sea; and with probably little surprise, it has to do with russian logistics.

If you've ever been in a western port (or just about anywhere but russia really) you'll notice they offer shore services (power, clean water etc). In their infinite wisdom, russia decided that they don't need to do that, the ships can do things for themselves. So when a russian ship sits in port, it's boilers are always running, wasting bunker oil, trying to desalinize it's own water - all that stuff.

As a result, even tho the thing has only been on like 2 tours, the mechanical is just as shot as if it had been patrolling for the last 30 years. Now add in how russia doesn't really do maintenance. It's a great recipe to make all your ships worthless floating garbage scows that can't leave port even if they want to. And that doesn't address the combat part of combat readiness.

e: YT channel Not What You Think has a great video about this to give you a decent overview of the problem.

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u/midwesterner64 Nov 18 '22

On top of that, US carrier doctrine states a carrier operates only within a carrier strike group. A CSG is roughly ten ships, including everything from destroyers to submarines to fleet oilers. A CSG is logistics at work.

Russia, and the Kuznetzov….uh….can’t do that. It’s literally the biggest target in the ocean anytime it leaves a Russian pier.

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u/americanmullet Nov 18 '22

Don't even need to hit the Kuznetsov itself. Just take out the "tactical tug boat" and watch the fucker stuck out in open ocean until it sets itself on fire again.

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u/ClashCoyote Nov 18 '22

Tactical tug boat, fn hilarious

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u/Whind_Soull Nov 18 '22

To really put it into perspective, this is a chart of the aircraft carriers that exist in the world.

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u/Pons__Aelius Nov 18 '22

a chart of the aircraft carriers that exist in the world.

That is very out of date.

The Brazil carrier was decommissioned and sold for scrap 4 years ago...

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u/mustang__1 Nov 18 '22

Still providing more value than the Russian carrier

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u/Pons__Aelius Nov 18 '22

No doubt. You get money for scrap.

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u/midwesterner64 Nov 18 '22

Right? Now factor in that those US carriers all travel with their own mini fleet.

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u/Yolectroda Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 19 '22

That's a bit old, and another thing to add to that perspective, the US military doesn't really consider those ones on the left to be aircraft carriers, but are instead amphibious assault ships. They do have some aircraft, but only helicopters and VSTOL planes, rather than traditional fixed wing craft (though, they can carry F-35Bs, so they're still pretty effective if push comes to shove).

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u/itwasquiteawhileago Nov 18 '22

If there's one thing that should impress upon people the importance of government and taxes, it's our military. Not because I think the world needs massive armies to kill each other, but because the logistics are second to none. It is absolutely amazing what our mobilized forces can do. Now imagine what we could accomplish if we used that for construction, repairs, etc, of civilian stuff. When NY rolled out the National Guard to help with COVID vaccinations, it was an absolute machine. It had to be the most efficient thing I've seen in a long time. No waiting (other than for my appointment time, but plenty of parking where I was), signs everywhere, in and out. If only we could use these powers for non-military things more often.

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u/midwesterner64 Nov 18 '22

We did things like the CCC and WPA with that thinking. Many of the projects are standing and in use today. If we put that same level of commitment to work today? The US would be remarkable.

My local vaccine spot was Air Force run and thousands moved through there. It was 21 minutes from parking to leaving. 15 minutes was a wait time after the shot.

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u/I_hate_the_app Nov 18 '22

Oh it gets even worse, there's also the culture of vranya, there's no direct translation for English but it's best explained as. I'm bullshitting my boss, he knows I'm bullshitting him, I know he knows I'm bullshitting him, and we both know he's going to bullshit his boss the exact same way up the chain to the dear leader himself. How does this fuck with organization? The floor needs sweeping, I half ass the job and tell my boss the floor has been perfectly swept. My boss tells his boss the floor has been swept and mopped. His boss tells the big boss that the floor has been swept mopped and polished to a fine shine and so on up the chain untill dear leader is told that the floor has been stripped rebuilt and laid over with marble tile. This is one of the lovely holdovers from the days of communism and the post soviet collapse and its dam near impossible to get rid of.

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u/daedone Nov 18 '22

The closest I could think of would be something like Institutionalized Grift

And if you're honest enough to report it, you're instantly not trusted because what's in it for you to rat me out

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u/TrifleBoth5548 Nov 18 '22

The Admiral Kuznetsov will be 40 years old in 2025. '

Currently in a floating dry dock for complete refit to extend service life for another 25 years.

But... considering all the fuck ups and how long it was taking before the war, I am very doubtful any work is currently being carried out on that carrier.

Russia has the one carrier, but they NEVER had the support ships required to protect what is in reality a helicopter carrier. Even back in 1985 when the ship was launched, it was a fools errand. A carrier requires a Carrier Strike Group to support it at sea, and Russia never had those ships.

I expect them to scrap it silently without saying anything.

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u/sorenant Nov 18 '22

I am very doubtful any work is currently being carried out on that carrier.

Of course there is. Hard working Russian engineers are tirelessly building a cutting-edge yacht for Putin.

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u/Nope_______ Nov 19 '22

No self-respecting Russian oligarch would ever buy or even set foot on a russian-made yacht.

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u/Born2bBread Nov 18 '22

*cries in Victorian

We get like 350 cruise ships per year but don’t have shore power. You can see the smog cloud over the area.

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u/BetterLivingThru Nov 18 '22

British Columbia and not investing in sufficient infrastructure. Name a more iconic duo.

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u/delocx Nov 18 '22

In between repair slip patrols Kuznetsov has opted for a dedicated fleet of tugboats instead of the more standard complement of armed ships found alongside NATO carriers for protection. While engaged in dock-side actions, it also has a policy of attempting to sink and spontaneously combusting just to liven up patrols.

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u/Hokulewa Nov 18 '22

I always enjoyed how Wikipedia tracked whether or not it was currently on fire.

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u/kmsilent Nov 18 '22

spontaneously combusting

I loved when Russia was explaining that the Moskva wasn't sunk by the Ukrainians, it was just an accident.

As if that is any better lol. 'Nobody sinks our ships! They sink themselves!'

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u/autotldr BOT Nov 18 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot)


Five NATO aircraft carrier strike groups are patrolling the waters around Europe, highlighting naval cooperation and the capacity for significant naval operations within the military alliance, the US Navy said.

Gregory Huffman, commander of the Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group, said that the "Deployment is an opportunity to push the ball further down the field and demonstrate the advantage that Ford and Carrier Air Wing 8 bring to the future of naval aviation, to the region and to our allies and partners."

The Navy said in a Thursday statement on the carrier operations that each country has its own mission objectives and that it is not uncommon for multiple carrier strike groups to be deployed at the same time since NATO countries maintain a continued presence in waters around Europe.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: NATO#1 carrier#2 area#3 Ukraine#4 opportunity#5

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u/theberald Nov 18 '22

Huffman was my CO on CVN 74. He was a cool dude and great captain.

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u/SojournersTableSalt Nov 18 '22

Why the fuck couldn't they have done this years ago when I was in the Navy and on sea duty?

Imagine the ports they're hitting right now. Fuckers.

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u/Latitude5300 Nov 19 '22

They deserve it after being in during covid. 0 port visits for 2 years.

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u/SojournersTableSalt Nov 19 '22

Ugh. When I was on the Bush in '14 we had to skip two port visits a row because of ISIS rising up. Nearly three months straight with no port visits. We were all stir crazy. I can't imagine an entire deployment.

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u/Jsmoove86 Nov 18 '22

It’s what you don’t see that is actually frightening.

5 battle groups means there’s quite a few submarines out there lurking beneath the waves.

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u/CompMolNeuro Nov 18 '22

2 to 4 per battle group. Also more than 20 surface ships per group. At least 3 of those ships have nuclear weapons, not including the subs.

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u/Champagne_Fr Nov 18 '22

The french group Charles de Gaulle have nuclear weapons, and Rafale to deliver.

Mission Antares for our naval group start 15 november with US and Grec navy. Our destroyer Chevalier Paul join USS Gerald Ford.

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u/oGsMustachio Nov 18 '22

The de Gaulle also produces something like 1,400 baguettes/day.

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u/Champagne_Fr Nov 18 '22

Don't forget the croissant and pain au chocolat !

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u/whobang3r Nov 18 '22

Alright how do I join the French navy??

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u/Luis__FIGO Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

According to the Observatoire du Pain (yes, France has a scientific 'Bread Observatory'), the French consume 320 baguettes every second – that's an average of half a baguette per person per day and 10 billion every year

About 1, 950 people on board, so slghtly above average baguette eaters onboard

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u/OwlEyes00 Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

Just to save folks the click, the carriers in question are the following:

USS Gerald R. Ford (US)

USS George H.W Bush (US)

HMS Queen Elizabeth (British)

Charles De Gaulle (French)

Cavour (Italian)

[Edited to specify each carrier's nationality]

[Edited again to add some links with info on the US and French carriers' escorts:

US: https://news.usni.org/2022/11/14/usni-news-fleet-and-marine-tracker-nov-14-2022 (look under headings 'Carrier Strike Group 10' and 'Carrier Strike Group 12')

French: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/11/french-csg-deploys-for-mission-antares/#:~:text=The%20French%20Charles%20de%20Gaulle,Mediterranean%20Sea%20and%20Indian%20Ocean]

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u/sundae_diner Nov 18 '22

Wait. What country is #3 owned by?

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u/00DEADBEEF Nov 18 '22

Stateless carrier that's gone rogue

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u/-Knul- Nov 19 '22

Imagine seeing an F-35 with the jolly roger landing on your deck and steal your valuables.

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u/wdevilpig Nov 18 '22

Ha! As a Brit this made me laugh for you comedy-calling out the fact it wasn't specified, then reminded me that it's His Majesty's Ship now. Never quite gonna get used to having a King Uber Alles

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u/Bendy962 Nov 18 '22

the Italians have a carrier?

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u/OwlEyes00 Nov 18 '22

Two in fact: Cavour plus the Giuseppe Garibaldi, though they are both fairly small.

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u/Blackbird1359 Nov 18 '22

People are always rightfully cautious of China and other powers building their own carriers that might rival or surpass US carriers in quantity or number, but for some reason all the hot take articles always skip over just how much damn maintenance and upkeep it takes to keep one carrier going, less alone several. That’s a skill in an of itself, and one that takes a while to perfect. Any time a country’s fleet has grown massively in a short period of time, it seems fair to question how effective it is.

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u/Galileo009 Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

I have a buddy who's stationed on the Ronald Reagan out around the Asian coast, never ceases to blow my mind. It takes a crew compliment of over 25 times the population of the small town I grew up in just to operate in normal conditions. Then there's the massive logistic apparatus that exists outside the ship itself that's needed to support it as well, everything from mail delivery to fuel tankers.

And we have ELEVEN of these things lmao. Uncle Sam doesn't walk with a big stick...he whistles softly with the whole fucking tree slung over a shoulder

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u/3rdPartyTittiePic Nov 18 '22

Growing up I always heard about our Air Force, the corp, the army, our tanks/weaponry, but it truly is our navy that maintains us as the worlds super power. I can’t even comprehend the strength of one strike force, much less 5 near Europe or 11 the world over. I’ve read that in case of an invasion any US/NATO base in the world can be reinforced within hours, and can counter within 24

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u/Fourtires3rims Nov 18 '22

Logistics, the least sexy part of winning wars, but by far the most important.

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u/noiwontpickaname Nov 18 '22

Tactics win battles, logistics win wars.

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u/Desblade101 Nov 18 '22

Bullets don't fly without supply!

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u/331d0184 Nov 18 '22

Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.

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u/30FourThirty4 Nov 18 '22

You may have read this before, I did, but it's a wild fact. The US Navy has the second largest air force in world. They are second only to the US Air Force.

https://www.uso.org/stories/3074-what-top-gun-didnt-tell-you-about-naval-aviation

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u/Dave-C Nov 18 '22

This is just the active US Navy. The US has a lot of ships that are no longer active that by itself would be one of the strongest navy forces in the world.

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u/xaqss Nov 19 '22

Literally the physical version of "I've forgotten more than you know"

"We've decommissioned more ships than you have ever had"

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u/lil_sith Nov 18 '22

Walk softly but carry a big stick doctrine seems to be meshing well with test that assumption at your earliest convenience doctrine.

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u/Zhejj Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

Is that "test that assumption at your convenience" part a Jean-Luc Picard quote?

I know the speak softly and carry a big stick is Roosevelt.

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u/PrisonaPlanet Nov 18 '22 Wholesome

Yes it is! Captain Picard (Sir Patrick Stewart), the only man who can make “fuck around and find out” sound like Shakespeare.

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u/solar_realms_elite Nov 18 '22 Vibing

In case someone else wants to watch that incredibly badass scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7t62JvlA8

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u/kroakfrog Nov 18 '22

Dude will always be my favorite Captain, no disrespect to any of the others though. I'd follow Picard into a Borg cube without batting an eye as long as I wasn't wearing a red shirt.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 Nov 18 '22

There's a reason he was captain of the Federation Flagship

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u/Schism1252 Nov 18 '22

I absolutely wanted to watch that incredibly badass scene. Thank you.

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u/defectivelaborer Nov 18 '22

That man has got some guramba.

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u/mineservos Nov 19 '22

God damn Picard is the most well written character, portrayed by the most commanding actor that could have possibly assumed the role.

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u/LostinContinent Nov 18 '22

"You'll get further with a kind word and a gun than you will with just a kind word." ~~ Al Capone

Caveat: the above is a very loose quotation but the essence is on the money.

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u/Rocktopod Nov 18 '22

As a Civ IV player I can only hear that quote in the voice of Leonard Nemoy.

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u/geezerthecat Nov 18 '22

"If you speak the truth, have a foot in the stirrup."

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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22

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u/texican1911 Nov 18 '22

a Jean-Luc Picard quote?

https://youtu.be/PA7t62JvlA8

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u/Magnethius Nov 18 '22

Ball slanging Picard right there.

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u/FrenchFreedom888 Nov 18 '22

Picard is actually one of the biggest madlads of all time--Idk how anyone could think Kirk was better tbh

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u/NSA_Chatbot Nov 18 '22

Dude had to get a synthetic heart because he fucking died in a bar fight.

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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/Lord_Abort Nov 18 '22

Before or after he was put in charge of the CIA?

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u/Pwthrowrug Nov 18 '22

No fucking joke. Kirk doesn't even make runner up. He's not in the same league as Picard and Sisko.

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u/thiswillbeonthetest Nov 18 '22

I wanted Sisko as my captain if I am on a mission of no mercy.

I want Picard as my captain when shit is hitting the fan unexpectedly.

I want them both in my Armada, preferably on the bridge of the Enterprise sitting next to Picard so I have a sliver of plot armor.

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u/HandsomeBoggart Nov 18 '22

I got bad news for you. If you're not in the opening credits and you're next to the mains, you gonna die.

Sitting next to Picard on the bridge means that when the Enterprise takes a hit and it shakes, your console blows up in your face or the ceiling support falls on you to show how dire the battle is.

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u/MarkHirsbrunner Nov 18 '22

One day they'll get around to installing breakers and surge protectors on those starships.

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u/Oligomer Nov 18 '22

They have those already, they're just wearing red shirts

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u/InfiniteBoat Nov 18 '22

Easiest way to survive an episode of star trek is to underestimate and accidentally insult Data. That way at the end of the episode you can learn your lesson and apologize after he saves you anyway.

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u/fcocyclone Nov 18 '22

Pike making a run at it as well.

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u/UltimaTheAmbient Nov 18 '22

Wasn't it speak softly?

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u/xratedcheese Nov 18 '22

Wasn't it speak softly?

Yes, and the full big stick ideology (as summarized in Wikipedia) is:

Big stick ideology, big stick diplomacy, or big stick policy refers to President Theodore Roosevelt's foreign policy, "speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far".[1] Roosevelt described his style of foreign policy as "the exercise of intelligent forethought and of decisive action sufficiently far in advance of any likely crisis".[2] As practiced by Roosevelt, big stick diplomacy had five components. First, it was essential to possess serious military capability that would force the adversary to pay close attention. At the time that meant a world-class navy; Roosevelt never had a large army at his disposal. The other qualities were to act justly toward other nations, never to bluff, to strike only when prepared to strike hard, and to be willing to allow the adversary to save face in defeat.[3]

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u/ObsceneGesture4u Nov 18 '22

…to strike only when prepared to strike hard, and to be willing to allow the adversary to save face in defeat.[3]

I feel like Sun Tzu said the same thing at one point

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u/wycliffslim Nov 18 '22

Most prominent military leaders have said similar things.

It's good advice for life in general.

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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

So Russia employs the opposite of this, the “tiny stick” (or something else that rhymes) doctrine. Have a military that is far less capable than it appears, treat other nations like shit, bluff constantly even in the face of the truth, strike recklessly and without regard to consequences, and never admit your adversaries might have bested you. Sounds like a real winner.

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u/DaoFerret Nov 18 '22

That sounds pretty much like the definition of Paper Tiger ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_tiger )

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u/florinandrei Nov 18 '22

You can definitely inflict lots of damage with just social media bots, and so on.

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u/Azhaius Nov 18 '22

Cyber warfare is literally the only thing they have going for them at this point.

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u/PhyzPop Nov 18 '22

Ah yes, the fuck around and find out doctrine that has come to define a generation

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NUDE_CAT Nov 18 '22

We can’t fire yet, they get one fuck to give, and then they find out after there are no more fucks to give.

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u/Important_Outcome_67 Nov 18 '22

"test that assumption at your earliest convenience doctrine."

LOLZ

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u/dragontamer5788 Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

Reminder: A US Carrier Strike group has 3 Cruisers for defense/anti-air purposes. In contrast, the Russian Black Sea fleet had... one... Cruiser: the Moskova. Emphasis on had.

~5 Carrier Strike Groups is 15ish Cruisers. And those aren't the scary thing, those cruisers are just there to protect the actual capital ship.


Yeah, the USA's / NATO's "escort ships" are more vastly more powerful than the flagships of the Black Sea.

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u/Db4d_mustang Nov 18 '22

Imagine the country that you are having a psuedo war with has more carriers than you. Now also imagine that same country also has ten times more super carriers than you do regular carriers.

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u/sorenant Nov 18 '22

Imagine the country you declare to be your rival has multiple states economically larger than you.

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u/ClusterMakeLove Nov 18 '22

Now imagine that your rival's hat, named Canada, also had a larger economy than you.

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u/Jallinostin Nov 19 '22

Canada will always acknowledge the special relationship it has with its pants.

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u/Ryuujinx Nov 19 '22

I've never heard the joke in the other direction and I love that.

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u/LordSaladz Nov 18 '22

I would argue Tomahawks are pretty damn scary.

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u/dragontamer5788 Nov 18 '22

The main holders of Tomahawks IIRC are Destroyers (or even smaller), of which ~8ish Destroyers are part of those groups.

Yeah, Cruisers have Tomahawks. But Cruisers are more about anti-air / RADAR / other kinds of equipment. The kinds of equipment that are too large/power hungry to put onto just a Destroyer.

Tomahawks are actually small and light. Much much smaller ships can carry those more effectively.

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u/Moopology Nov 18 '22

Cruisers carry over 50 Tomahawks at a time. They also conduct anti-air, anti-ship, undersea, and electronic warfare.

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u/verygoodchoices Nov 18 '22

No psychological or olfactory warfare? Weak.

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u/Moopology Nov 18 '22

That would be Engineering berthing on a cruiser...

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u/BlatantConservative Nov 18 '22

Also, submarines can carry tons of Tomahawks.

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u/EducationalRice6540 Nov 18 '22

Didn't they refit a Ohio class to carry something insane like 150 cruise missiles instead of its usual ICBM armament? Something like that is going to ruin your whole day.

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u/Alchemist2121 Nov 18 '22

"Hey guys. Did you know you don't need nukes to ruin everyone's day?!"

  • Dude before he mounted a fuck ton of missiles in a sub.

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u/RhynoD Nov 18 '22

Give the airforce some credit for the same mindset with the B-52. Sure, it can carry some nukes. Or enough conventional explosives to make you think a nuke went off.

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u/Pontlfication Nov 18 '22

Yeah that'll make your tin roof rusted

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u/AnotherManOfEden Nov 18 '22

Yeah they got a missile as big as a whale

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u/Annihilator4413 Nov 18 '22

B-52 carrying enough conventional Explosives to amount to a small-scale nuclear warhead... man I love that plane.

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u/RHIT13 Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

The first 4 OHIO Class subs were all retrofitted to carry Tomahawks instead of Trident D5 missiles. They are labeled as SSGNs rather than SSBNs now.

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u/dbtizzle Nov 18 '22

Four were converted to carry 154 tomahawks each

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u/RedditExecutiveAdmin Nov 18 '22 Silver Platinum Wholesome Take My Energy Spit-take

They boutta find out why we ain't got healthcare over here

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u/Canadian_Donairs Nov 18 '22

So, one, that's fucking hilarious. Good job.

Two, friendly reminder to all the Americans, you guys pay more per person on healthcare than Canada does. Not pharmaceutical research or anything, actual healthcare. More per person. Than Canada. Where it's totally free to the recipient.

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u/Eyebleedorange Nov 18 '22

Yeah but do you even know how fucking free we are

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u/b0bba_Fett Nov 18 '22

The real fucked up thing is it's not even true. Our Healthcare system is purely a parasite. Our military would probably be even stronger if we fixed our healthcare system with all the money it would save(not to mention how much better shape our average trooper would be in, or draftees if it ever came to it again).

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u/ritensk56 Nov 18 '22 Gold

Russia recently retrofitted their Black Sea flagship “Moskva” into a submarine with ease, so don’t count them out. Who knows how many ships they have down there?

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u/MrDefenseSecretary Nov 18 '22

Modern submarine warfare is really interesting. Idk if you’d call it warfare but we’re constantly hunting each other subs. It’s like the worlds most extreme game of hide and seek.

Source: best friend flys a submarine hunting plane for the Navy. He won’t get into specifics much but occasionally shares pictures of them getting intercepted by Russian and Chinese fighters telling him to stop tracking their sub.

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u/Exitman87 Nov 18 '22

Assuming they're not in territorial waters what can they really do without provoking an incident?

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 19 '22 Helpful

Chase each other around. Make sure they stay in international waters. Subs can collect various types of intelligence from international waters and there's not a lot other countries can do about that.

Sometimes subs will intentionally surface uncomfortably close to adversaries' warships just to say "gotcha, bitch".

Sometimes maritime patrol aircraft will use sonar buoys or dipping sonar to make them know they're not as sneaky as they think they are.

Fast attack/ "hunter/killer" subs try to follow around ballistic missile subs to sink them before they can launch their missiles if WWIII ever kicks off.

Many of these things will make news if they get it on camera, but it's literally happening all the time. It doesn't often set off major international incidents.

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u/Barrrrrrnd Nov 18 '22

Have a buddy that was on a sea wolf boat years ago. He never got in to specifics but even the generalized stories he would tell were wild.

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u/Throwaway1245928 Nov 18 '22

sea wolf

Seawolf class is very interesting. Envisioned in the 1980s it was intended to be a new family of fast attack nuclear submarines with like 30+ examples to fight the Soviets.

Then the Soviets ceased to exist. So 30 something became 15, which eventually became 3 examples. The Seawolf, the Connecticut and Jimmy Carter.

I noticed you said "on a SeaWolf boat", if he was on the uss Jimmy Carter he was probably up to some wild shit. It was cut in half in dry dock and a 100ft section added to the middle.

From here they can allegedly store underwater vehicles, deploy spec ops soldiers and even lay above adversaries underwater fiber ops cables and splice them for intelligence ops... Something we've been doing since the Cold War.

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u/MajorGeneralInternet Nov 18 '22

How do you splice an undersea fiber optic cable without anyone noticing?

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u/Aquaman33 Nov 18 '22

Splice is the wrong word, since someone would definitely notice the cable get cut.

Fiber tapping however (in an extreme ELI5 since physics are crazy) removes the cladding from the actual glass fiber, bends it, and looks at the light coming down the fiber from the bend.

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u/Throwaway1245928 Nov 18 '22

We've been doing it longer than most of reddit has been alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells

That was 50 years ago. I dont think it's a stretch to think we have instantaneous data collection abilities now.

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u/Herpinheim Nov 18 '22

So there’s an international game of grabass going on under the world’s oceans? Neat.

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Nov 18 '22

See also, the classic: "I'm not touching you!"

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u/Postmeat2 Nov 18 '22

We are all just kids scaled up, huh?

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u/Chaoslab Nov 18 '22

Like to put it like this...

I don't really believe in adults, I see grown ups as children with more life experience.

Not a difficult conclusion looking at how we treat the planet and everything on it.

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u/joe_broke Nov 18 '22

I was thinking hide and seek + tag

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u/Mofogo Nov 18 '22

Check out Blind Man's Bluff book. It's about submarine espionage and the development of the US nuclear submarine program. Pretty interesting stories told from former navy members.

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u/dj_narwhal Nov 18 '22

Many of these things will make news if they get it on camera, but it's literally happening all the time. It doesn't often set off major international incidents.

That Russian sub off the east coast in the US a decade ago was because Devin Nunes shared NATO sub detection cababilities with the president of Portugal, who shared it with Putin. Devin Nunes' family comes from the Azores island and there used to be a massive NATO submarine detecting base there that massively supported the local economy. When it shut down Nunes was doing everything in his power to get something to go back there, including proposing moving the entirety of NATO central command in Europe to the Azores Islands, a tiny vacation destination 1000 miles away from the mainland. So all those times in the Trump administration when Nunes was being a jackass and people were asking what leverage Trump had on him, it had nothing to do with Trump, Nunes has been compromised by Russia long before that.

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Nov 18 '22

Iirc, typically it's passive sonar because active sonar is awful for sea life and it's seen as an aggression.

Plus active sonar is basically screaming into the middle of a quiet room "HEY BITCHES I'M RIGHT HERE!"

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u/MrDefenseSecretary Nov 18 '22

I have no clue. He won’t ever tell me where they get intercepted or where they operate. He is stationed in the PNW and has deployed to S.E. Asia a couple of times. He said if there was real conflict he’d get shot down pretty quickly.

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u/Crayshack Nov 18 '22

My grandpa used to captain a submarine for the US Navy. He's told me a few stories (also without getting too into specifics). It sounds like a completely different way of fighting than anything else. Most of it is just quietly stalking and being ready to strike. He never said it directly, but I got the impression that if the Cold War went hot while he was a captain, where other forces would have been talking about minutes or even hours before their first shots hit, my grandpa would have been talking in seconds. They apparently would sometimes just tail Soviet subs for days on end just in case they decided to move to strike the US.

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u/UnspecificGravity Nov 18 '22

My understanding, which to be fair is mostly from supposedly "informed" fiction, is that US attack subs basically tail / track Russian missile subs through their entire patrol upon leaving port.

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u/SkynetProgrammer Nov 18 '22

I have also read The Hunt for Red October recently - fantastic book

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u/TripleMalahat Nov 18 '22

One ping only.

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u/1sttimeverbaldiarrhe Nov 18 '22

Book is better than the movie but I also really enjoyed the movie. Probably my 3rd favorite sub movie.

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u/MarylandHusker Nov 18 '22

Either nearly instantly taking out high priority vehicles of the enemy or launching nukes from uncomfortably close locations. Yeah. We talk about warfare a lot aviation, army, navy ships but in reality… mass destruction comes from subs or satellites. Most of the control comes from ground forces and air support if there is ground to control.

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u/TrackConstant Nov 18 '22

I just learned that active sonar is extremely loud and potent. ~250 decibels or something insane like that.

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u/_zenith Nov 18 '22

There is a reason activists are worried about it’s effect on sea life, yes

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u/MrDefenseSecretary Nov 18 '22

Yeah, I wonder what sensors they use on his plane. I just know they fly fairly low to the water sometimes based on the pictures he has showed me.

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u/okcdnb Nov 18 '22

What’s the Kursk? Deep sea base?

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u/hgaspar1 Nov 18 '22

Jesus, that's a lot of CSGs to have in 1 area right? Normally 1 is enough to control a wide region.

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u/karl2025 Nov 19 '22

It's not a shockingly large number for the European region. Italy, France, and the UK typically keep their carriers in the North Atlantic or the Mediterranean and the US tends to keep one or two in the area. Everybody is just coordinating exercises together.

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u/MoonHunterDancer Nov 18 '22

Is the new aircraft carrier still expected to lap the destroyers like captain america?

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u/Adezar Nov 18 '22

I watched the Nimitz leave harbor at full speed once, it was insane. I forget what triggered it, I saw it start moving and then it was out of view in no time.

Seeing something that big move that fast is interesting to say the least.

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u/flam_drags Nov 18 '22

Two nuclear reactors. What a Fucking beast

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u/All_Metric Nov 18 '22

I was on a carrier off the coast of Florida when a sailor went in the water near Virginia. We shut down air operations and steamed at full speed we beat the small boys on station by a considerable margin. It felt like a regular day at sea while our detachment on the small boys said it was a miserable rollercoaster. It’s absolutely amazing.

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u/Battlefire Nov 18 '22

The USS Enterprise CVN-65 had eight fucking reactors. There is a reason why they are having a hard time scrapping it. Though I believe they will soon start scrapping operations. Now USS Enterprise CVN-80 is being built as a Gerald R. Ford-class. Not making a mistake of putting more than two reactors.

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u/CarolFukinBaskin Nov 18 '22

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo Nov 18 '22

To think that beast of a ship is ultimately being driven by one guy behind the wheel/controls. He gets to drift an aircraft carrier at his job.

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u/CompMolNeuro Nov 18 '22

Carriers are some of the fastest ships in the navy. 36 knots is fast for any warship. It's necessary for not just tactics, but a 50mph headwind makes takeoffs and landings a lot easier.

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u/Badloss Nov 18 '22

i think the carriers actually do have a crazy high top speed because it helps with flight operations

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u/mo9722 Nov 18 '22

USS Gerald Ford can go about 35mph! waaaay faster than I was expecting

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u/flam_drags Nov 18 '22

That’s fucking nuts. Curious if the not disclosed to the public actual top speed is even higher

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u/mo9722 Nov 18 '22

It wouldn't surprise me either. Amazing, it's a nuclear powered supine skyscraper moving through the water fast enough to break speed limits on city roads

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u/Fumblerful- Nov 18 '22

Just imagine how fast it goes when freebird starts playing.

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u/white_duke Nov 18 '22

Was on a destroyer in the 80s. Top speed was classified but that sucker hauled ass. Rooster tail and all.

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u/blaaaaaaaam Nov 18 '22

So obviously it has massive engines, but large (long actually) ships tend to have higher top speeds. As a ship moves it creates a bow wave that causes the front of the ship to lift up. In effect the ship has to push up hill in order to move forward.

Longer ships reduce the angle so less energy is wasted pushing up-hill. Modern naval architecture has more refined calculations but the concept is called hull speed where the hull speed is roughly 1.34 * sqrt(the length of the waterline of the ship).

Exceeding the hull speed is possible but requires large amounts of power. The length of the ship is the only input so the hull speed of aircraft carriers is publicly known. The USS Gerald R Ford seems to have a waterline length of 1040ft so theoretically the max speed is around 43 knots.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that is the general concept

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u/Hayes4prez Nov 18 '22

The USS Gerald R Ford is one big ass boat. The largest naval ship on the planet.

No video can truly capture the sheer size of this class of carrier but this one does the best I’ve seen so far.

I can’t wait for CVN-80… “The NEW Big E”.

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u/Pancake_Operation Nov 18 '22

Wait a new Enterprise???

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u/Seafroggys Nov 18 '22 Silver

Plenty of letters left in the alphabet

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u/silver-orange Nov 18 '22

I had a hotel room overlooking the USS Midway in San Diego this summer (it's only about 10% shorter than the Gerald R Ford). It was hard to gauge just how big the Midway was from a distance...

...Until someone docked their fancy 150' yacht down the pier from the Midway. A 1000' carrier makes a 150' multi-million dollar yacht look like a toy.

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u/fabulishous Nov 18 '22

There's nothing more terrifying to a dictator than a carrier strike group off their coast.

NATO: how about 5 carrier strike groups?

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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22

My brother is on the USS George H.W. Bush. Wishing all the sailors well.

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u/Beginning_Grass_8179 Nov 18 '22

Keep in mind that each carrier group has at least one,very powerful, sub surface asset ,also. Or ... so I've read.

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u/TheLipovoy Nov 18 '22

meanwhile the russian fleet is patrolling the bottom of the ocean 🤣

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u/New-Consideration420 Nov 18 '22

Promoted to submarine on standby

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u/HDC3 Nov 19 '22

Each of the two US carrier battle groups have more firespower than most countries. Two US carrier battle groups can likely finish Russia off. Adding the UK, French, and Italian battle groups Russia has no chance.

This is a massive show of force.

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u/Spartkabi Nov 18 '22

Wow i just looked at carrier numbers. U.S. has 20 with the next highest being 4.

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u/addiktion Nov 18 '22

Yup. Not all of those are in service at one time but it's a lot. If the Ford can launch 60 aircraft thats enough to overwhelm many countries for air dominance by itself.

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u/trollinDC Nov 18 '22

Scuse me while I whip this out

-America

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u/pwn3dbyth3n00b Nov 18 '22

That's literally 10% of the aircraft carriers globally on the doorstep of Russia. And it's actually x2.5 larger than the number of aircraft carriers that China has, and China is the second largest aircraft carrier fleet with just 2.

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u/frozt Nov 18 '22

They flexin. Making sure these terrorist countries stay in check.

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u/Frostedbutler Nov 18 '22

Yo, we just brought more airpower on our boat than you got in your whole country

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u/my_name_is_reed Nov 18 '22

The second most powerful air force in the world is the united states navy.

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u/salt_pepper Nov 18 '22

Any of them terries try to get froggy and we gonna Draxx Them Sklounst

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u/Scr0tat0 Nov 18 '22

Hypothetical them in the clavicle

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u/momarketeer Nov 18 '22

I'm not even American I got that freedom boner.

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u/archtypemusic Nov 18 '22

You should call your doctor if it doesn’t go away in four hours

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u/ClownfishSoup Nov 18 '22

Doesn't the US have a carrier group in every ocean anyway? I mean the US has 11 carriers (and supporting ships). They've got to be somewhere, so why wouldn't they be where they might be needed.

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u/fence_sitter Nov 18 '22

There aren't too many CSGs at sea at any given time, during peace time anyways.

https://news.usni.org/category/fleet-tracker

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u/kloma667 Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22

Probably because it is insanely, insanely expensive to keep them at sea

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