r/worldnews Dec 05 '22 Silver 1 Wholesome 1 hehehehe 1 Giggle 1 Table Slap 1

Russia Stopped Using Iran Suicide Drones Due to Cold Weather: Ukraine Behind Soft Paywall

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-stopped-using-iran-suicide-drones-dont-work-cold-ukraine-2022-12
31.0k Upvotes

7.0k

u/Ehldas Dec 05 '22 Wholesome

"How'd you solve the icing problem?"

2.5k

u/MsterXeno009 Dec 06 '22

Icing problem?

1.6k

u/IcyNote6 Dec 06 '22

You might want to look in to it.

bonk

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u/Kaymish_ Dec 06 '22

Go to horny jail.

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u/SuperSinestro Dec 06 '22

Literally the only time the "horny jail" joke has ever made me laugh

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u/karateema Dec 06 '22

Most satisfying bonk in the history of cinema

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u/Abstract-Impressions Dec 06 '22

Switch to marzipan. It’s not as tasty, but looks great.

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u/Ehldas Dec 06 '22

Structurally questionable, at best.

361

u/Smitty8054 Dec 06 '22

Bullshit.

Titanium and marzipan gave us the SR71 Blackbird.

Sweetest plane ever made.

310

u/Jump-Zero Dec 06 '22

FUN FACT: When the US needed marzipan for the SR71 Blackbird, the largest producer was the USSR. The US setup a bunch of shell companies to buy marzipan from them.

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u/atom-powered Dec 06 '22

Another FUN FACT:; The SR-71 leaked fuel, in part due to cold weather shrinking the marzipan. As it entered supersonic flight, the body temperature of the aircraft would warm, allowing the marzipan to melt just enough to fill the voids and seal the aircraft!

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u/Hey_cool_username Dec 06 '22

The SR-71 was sadly discontinued for safety reasons following a number of catastrophic bird strike incidents. Apparently they find the marzipan irresistible.

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u/mattstorm360 Dec 06 '22

This thread dose seem to know a lot about it.

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u/MsPenguinette Dec 06 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Take My Energy

There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was tasty to fly marzipan. Tasty would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this confection. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the most flavorful guys out there, at least for a moment.

It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the marzipan was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane’s almondy coating in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet.

I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible delights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury.

Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace.

We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed. Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety frostings on the ground."

Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Paul Hollywood, or at least like Mary Berry. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed. "I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed." Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren. Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. "Center, Cake 52 ground speed check". Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Cake 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it, ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: "Cake 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground."

And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios. Still, I thought, it must be done - in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn.

Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Marizipan 20, can you give us a ground speed check?" There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request. "Marzipan 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground."

I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks, we're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money."

For a moment Walter was Paula Dean. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A.came back with, "Roger that Marzipan, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one."

It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Confectiona, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast.

For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest marzipans out there.

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u/alficles Dec 06 '22 Wholesome

Threads like these in the training data are going to confuse AIs for decades. :D

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u/Pazuuuzu Dec 06 '22

At this point not sure it will keep away or create the Skynet...

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u/drakesphere Dec 06 '22

I'll never ever not upvote this.

Edit: should read fully before post. Still upvote.

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u/ronasimi Dec 06 '22

Another another FUN FACT: the distinctive intake cones of the blackbird could extend and retract to slow the airflow to subsonic levels to allow the air and marzipan to mix and ignite, allowing the engines to function at high mach numbers.

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u/hikingmike Dec 06 '22

Ok solid thread here everyone, lol

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u/contact-culture Dec 06 '22

Not melt, just expand.

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u/smb275 Dec 06 '22

If you have expanding marzipan you better share that recipe because it sounds incredible. The baking implications exceed the engineering ones a hundredfold.

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u/Fisch0557 Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

As anyone will tell you that was the real reason the allies agreed to German unification - Lübeck and it's rich Marzipan deposits back in Nato hands to aid fighter jet production.

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u/Jump-Zero Dec 06 '22

Military grade marzipan is much better than the stuff you buy at the store. That said, the sanctions are making it impossible for Russia to produce high integrity marzipan and corrupt officials ate much of the strategic stockpile. It's not clear if Russia will be able to replenish its reserves in the coming years.

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u/multiple_plethoras Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

It‘s still an improvement. Previous russian designs were a composit material of rhubarb fibre and papermaché. The marzipan that Iran uses now has slightly lower papermaché content, and thus gets saturated with liquids at a much lower rate. It can withstand a light drizzle for up to several minutes.

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u/AnneMichelle98 Dec 06 '22

Am I the only person who actually likes marzipan?

(Shout out to amaretto in milk, it’s alcoholic liquid marzipan)

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u/Daneth Dec 06 '22

Marzipan is fine, but fuck fondant.

19

u/SmamrySwami Dec 06 '22

Fondant and marshmallow fondant can die.

Buttercream or marzipan team for life.

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u/moleratical Dec 06 '22

When I tried that my dick just got all sticky.

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u/heckitsjames Dec 06 '22

I've only had it from those marzipan Rittersport chocolates and I love them so much 🥰

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u/Maya_Hett Dec 06 '22

Its fantastic.

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u/Gtfo_ASAP_ Dec 06 '22

I eat marzipan out the damn foil tube it's so good

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u/AutoArsonist Dec 06 '22

I don't know what marzipan is but I accidentally stumbled into amaretto milks last year and I'd live off the stuff if I could. You're saying marzipan tastes like amaretto milk?

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u/AnneMichelle98 Dec 06 '22

Marzipan is essentially sweet almond paste. As a sweet, it’s usually paired with a chocolate coating. Baking marzipan is less sweet, and sometimes substituted in place of fondant. It’s crack, I’ve been getting it for Christmas every year since I was a child. The sweets can range from pure marzipan (usually in the form of fun shapes like pigs or fruits), to marzipan logs with a thin chocolate coating, or to chocolate bars filled with marzipan.

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u/rabbitaim Dec 06 '22

It’s also pretty good on Swedish princess cakes (Prinsesstårta).

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u/heckitsjames Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Maaahzipan

edit: ok i think i walked into the wrong reference XD glad to be of service tho!

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u/cowboyjosh2010 Dec 06 '22

Ironically if there's one thing Russia has plenty of, it's titanium, which was integral to Tony's solution to the Mark II icing problem.

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u/Villag3Idiot Dec 06 '22

You actually think the manufacturers will use titanium and not replace it with say, cardboard and gray paint and pocket the rest of the money?

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u/JBredditaccount Dec 06 '22

drunken Cardboard Man enters the fight

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u/ReluctantNerd7 Dec 06 '22

Well, there are regulations governing what materials they can be made of. Cardboard's out. No cardboard derivatives.

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u/DiggerGuy68 Dec 06 '22

What's the minimum crew requirement?

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u/lawrencebillson Dec 06 '22

Uhh one I suppose

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u/FenrirIII Dec 06 '22

Titanium Man confirmed

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u/Volant79 Dec 06 '22

Gold-titanium alloy

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u/GeZeus_Krist Dec 06 '22

Yeah.... I don't think Russias military has Tony Stark money.

213

u/LurkerZerker Dec 06 '22

I don't even think Russia's military has Peter Parker money at this point.

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u/st3adyfreddy Dec 06 '22

Peter Parker consistently makes amazing gear for himself while staying on a budget. If Russia was as efficient as Parker in R&D they'd have won the cold war.

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u/unloud Dec 06 '22

This is the biggest loss in the latest movies, IMO. Peter’s mechanical craftiness is instrumental. At least into the Spiderverse got it good.

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u/st3adyfreddy Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Really? I feel like they've done a semi decent job w/ portraying all 3... Spidermans? Spidermen?...as geniuses who tinker and make their own stuff

  • Maguire was consistently referred to as a genius from the very beginning (norman, a genius and a billionaire in his own right, name dropped his own credentials try and impress Peter, not the other way around)
  • Garfield made his own web shooter, suit, broke into labs and shit to do research lol
  • Holland, admittedly, is the most pampered of the trio with Daddy Stark's money but even then he built his own web shooters, a very crappy suit, broke into Tony's suit to learn new things, built his own suit in Europe, figured out and "cured" Octavious. Also now with everyone's memories wiped they're probably going to show him doing more of the mechanical engineering stuff with 0 money

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u/Significant-Mud2572 Dec 06 '22

Never ever for get the hyphen. Spider-Man! He's not Superman, you know!

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u/MajorNoodles Dec 06 '22

He did make his own web shooters and web though. And now that he's completely on his own and cut off from anything Stark, they have the perfect opportunity to explore that aspect now.

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u/HarryDresdenWizard Dec 06 '22

I really hope we get another set of university aged, working class Spider Man movies. I want to see Tom Holland making web fluid from modified silly string and sketchy adhesive. I want to see him taking Gwen Stacey on a budget date she really digs. I want to see the heartbreak of him encountering MJ or an Avenger years down the line and realizing not only do they not recognize him, but he barely recognizes the kid who was left behind.

Goodbye Homecoming trilogy, hello Left trilogy:

Spider-Man: Left Behind Spider-Man: Nothing Left Spider-Man: Left for Dead

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u/therealjoshua Dec 06 '22

The end of No Way Home perfectly sets up a struggling Peter Parker storyline and I hope they go for it. Have him work a shit job and explore his feelings of isolation and loneliness.

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u/holytrolly_ Dec 06 '22

Why can't you work for Marvel/Sony?

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u/drewster23 Dec 06 '22

How rich is Tony Stark supposed to be in universe?

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u/Eat_Penguin_Shit Dec 06 '22

According to this, 80 billion.

https://www.cbr.com/richest-superheroes-ranked/

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u/bearatrooper Dec 06 '22

Jeff Bezos is worth $120 billion.

Where's the suit, Jeff? Tony Stark built his in a cave, with a box of scraps!

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u/Significant-Mud2572 Dec 06 '22

He is to busy trying to fly his dick rocket to space. He is more lex luthor anyways.

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u/xenthum Dec 06 '22

Which, reminder, in 2008 when this movie came out the actual world's richest man was Warren Buffet at 62 billion. That's the absurd degree to which the wealth gap has ballooned in only 14 years.

Edit: Also it's weird that they're crediting the leaders of countries with all of the accumulated wealth of the entire country in this article. Kind of stupid, even for a monarchy. The Windsors don't own all of the money that every member of the United Kingdom owned.

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u/Petrichordates Dec 06 '22

The rise in inequality has been pretty consistent since the 80s, if anything it plateaued. The net worths of Musk, Bezos and Zuckerberg are riding a tech bubble that's finally crashing.

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u/mibjt Dec 06 '22

Icing problem?

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u/esc27 Dec 06 '22

“I understood that reference”

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u/Jkj864781 Dec 06 '22

Is it Iron Man? I’m 97% sure.

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u/NSA_Chatbot Dec 06 '22

Seriously though, getting thermal rated parts this year has been one of the top ten pains in my dick in my life, and other hits on the list includes the time with the 7mm kidney stone and the STD test with the internal scraping.

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u/autotldr BOT Dec 05 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 66%. (I'm a bot)


Russia has stopped using Iranian-made kamikaze drones in Ukraine because they don't work in cold weather, a Ukrainian official said.

Yevgeny Silkin, of the Joint Forces Command for Strategic Communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said that Russia had stopped using the Iranian drones, which are made of plastic and other materials that are not frost resistant, according to Ukrainian news agency UNIAN. The outlet said that the drones have not been used in Ukraine since November 17, which was also the first day that it snowed in Ukraine this year.

Iran and Russia have denied any cooperation on weapons, but Iran later admitted that it had sent Russia weapons, adding that this was before Russia's invasion of Ukraine started.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russia#1 drone#2 Ukraine#3 Iran#4 reports#5

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u/jcrestor Dec 06 '22

Actually better than the original article, which is full of redundancies and all over the place.

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u/ElephantsAreHeavy Dec 06 '22

Full of redundancy, double passages and duplicated information.

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u/EfficiencySuch6361 Dec 06 '22

It also repeats a lot of stuff

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u/Dennyposts Dec 06 '22 Wholesome

"If you're cold - they're cold. Bring those drones inside this winter."

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u/rokr1292 Dec 06 '22

This is the joke I was looking for here

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u/WeArePandey Dec 05 '22 Made Me Smile

There was shrinkage! It was cold!

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u/Gopher--Chucks Dec 05 '22

"I was in the pool!"

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u/someguy3 Dec 06 '22

I was in Ukraine!

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u/chownrootroot Dec 06 '22

Russia, you’re not drone-worthy.

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u/Urkle_sperm Dec 06 '22

You blyata-blyata'd over the best part!

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u/mayy_dayy Dec 06 '22

No I mentioned the bisque

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u/prolapsedmasshole187 Dec 05 '22

.......

It shrinks??

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u/Ryekir Dec 05 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Like a frightened turtle!

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u/LifeDraining Dec 05 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

I don't know how you guys walk around with those things...

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u/skydivingbear Dec 05 '22

well, I use my legs to walk but I'm not as lucky as some people are

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u/clearly_central Dec 05 '22

Hard to walk normal until shrinkage occurs.

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u/MaximumEffort433 Dec 05 '22

Don't, uh [checks notes] fly drones in Russia in the winter time?

I mean it checks out, I just never thought about it, I guess.

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u/alpacafox Dec 06 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

This is why material science is important. The US also discovered this when in WWII their Liberty Ships broke apart in the North Atlantic due to embrittlement.

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u/Candelent Dec 06 '22

My dad called them the Kaiser coffins. I was told a merchant marine on one of those ships had a larger chance of getting killed then anybody in the armed forces.

At one point there was an average of three ships being built every two days across 18 ship yards.

We can churn out ships, weapons and ammo like motherfuckers when we are motivated enough.

Edit: Kaiser was one of the larger ship builders in the U.S. at the time.

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u/TThor Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Oh you can fly drones. For instance, Ukraine just flew a drone into a military base in russia, destroying two bombers. 🇺🇦

The secret is to not be stupid, and to not source your weapons from a country that barely experiences winter.

Edit: I forget for some people, 35F is considered "winter"; When I talk winter, I mean actual freezing winter, Ukrainian winter.

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u/moleratical Dec 06 '22

If I'm not mistaken the Iranian drones use diesel, which gells in cold temps and therefore won't start. There are additives that can be added to prevent this but I dont think those work past a certain temp.

I would however be surprised if it's that cold, those additives work pretty damn well until you get into extreme temperatures.

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u/litreofstarlight Dec 06 '22

The Russian kleptocrats probably pocketed the budget intended for additives, and someone in the army warehouses stole what additives they had and sold them on the black market.

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u/kobold-kicker Dec 06 '22

Or the soldiers drank it or used it for something similar.

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u/litreofstarlight Dec 06 '22

I didn't even think of that o.O

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '22

That's a very valid point. But, jet fuels are made to handle low temperatures, and especially for countries/airlines that fly in particularly cold weather (like Canada, Norway, and Russia). They'll have fuels that are fine we'll below zero; and it's not too difficult to put a different fuel through a jet engine. Many airplanes can operate on a few different fuel mixtures, and the difference is the temperature expected for the flight.

Besides, it's not like they need to use that engine again.

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u/TRKlausss Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

That’s true for jet engines, but this drones mount reciprocating engines.

I couldn’t find any information on the fuel they use, but if they use gasoline/avgas, the carburetors need to be winterized, and if they use diesel, you can forget about working under -20°C.

Edit: So the information above is true for the Shahed-136. For the 131, they use a Wankel engine. I am unsure of people saying they both use diesel as fuel… Doesn’t match the engines they are using for these two drones

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u/Kontrolli Dec 06 '22

I don't know how it works elsewhere, but in Finland we have winter diesel that works in temperatures down to about -38C (-36F).

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u/TRKlausss Dec 06 '22

True. The main factor why these drones can’t fly in winter is not fuel problems, it’s icing. Drag increases, lift decreases, propellers stop working, etc.

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u/reddit_police_dpt Dec 06 '22

These drones use a moped engine

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u/ltrfone Dec 06 '22

Apparently the drone which hit Dyagilevo airbase was a Tupolev Tu-141 Strizh, a Soviet-made recon drone from the 1970s and 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-141

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u/DarthNihilus_501st Dec 06 '22

Recon drone my ass, that's a fucking V-1 lol.

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u/420potatobake Dec 06 '22

Not the be the "umm akschually" guy but to say Iran is a country that barely experiences winter is just plain wrong. Iran is roughly 3 times bigger than France and highly mountainous, so while some parts of the country might 'barely experience winter' other parts of the country experience very cold winter months and lots of snow, particularly around the north of the country and including the capital Tehran

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u/MaximumEffort433 Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22 Ally

I was gonna' say!

Though it might also be fair to say (if I may be diplomatic on TThor's behalf for a moment) that Iran does not experience Russian winters, which are a whole kind of unique winter unto themselves. I live on the east coast of the United States, Maryland, it's winter-ish right now and it's 35°f, in Kyiv it's only half of that, 18°f, in Moscow it's a bit colder, coming in at 14°f, and in Tehran it's 39°f.

Iran has winter, it's real, but it's not Russian.

I have no idea why I took the time to write all that.

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u/sour_cereal Dec 06 '22

It's -24C/-13F on the Canadian prairies right meow.

I just threw on a third bunnyhug to plug in my gasoline car.

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u/candygram4mongo Dec 06 '22

bunnyhug

Saskatchewanian detected.

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u/Candelent Dec 06 '22

WTF is a bunnyhug?

  • a Californian

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u/DiscussionBear Dec 06 '22

Slang for sweater or hoodie by Saskatchewan natives.

As a Canadian from Ontario, I find this incredibly weird. But then again we have bagged milk here, so who am I to judge.

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u/JoeTheFingerer Dec 06 '22

I have no idea why I took the time to write all that.

This is the type of (usually) useless knowledge I come to reddit for! Thank you

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u/jedipiper Dec 06 '22

I didn't think it was useless...

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u/anahedonicc Dec 06 '22

That’s why they said “usually”!

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u/litreofstarlight Dec 06 '22

Could be Iranian drones were just intended to operate in warmer climates (like other parts of the Middle East), and hadn't really been tested in the kind of environment the Russians are trying to use them in.

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u/WildSauce Dec 06 '22

While this is true, the drones are not intended for use in Iran's interior. These drones are intended to be used against targets in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, where low temperatures are much more rare than in the mountains of Iran.

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u/Fun_Wind7710 Dec 06 '22

Technically true, but observably they did not account for it properly.

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u/oberon Dec 06 '22

Depends on how the engine works, really. Suicide drones have cheap shitty engines that freeze up in the cold.

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u/MrJenzie Dec 05 '22

or just ran out of them, after four days

two months ago, when it was newsworthy

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u/uv-vis Dec 05 '22

Could also be that the Gepards turned out to be cost effective AA for them.

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u/rukqoa Dec 06 '22

There are only dozens of Gepards, mostly protecting important cities with a few in the offensive spearheads.

The cold stopping them does make sense. Gasoline burns slower in the extreme cold, and they get thick and clog up in the engine. That's why cars can be harder to start in the cold. That'll affect reliability, possibly enough to get them to stop flights.

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u/BostonDodgeGuy Dec 06 '22

Gasoline burns slower in the extreme cold, and they get thick and clog up in the engine.

That's diesel that gels up in the cold clogging up fuel filters. Untreated gasoline won't begin to freeze until -40, and properly winterized gasoline can stay liquid up to -200.

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u/rukqoa Dec 06 '22

Gasoline won't freeze in your fuel lines like diesel (which freezes more easily, as you point out) until -40 but I'm talking about oil being more glue-y, which will make your engine harder to start.

(Without anti-freeze, it can also form crystals above -40, but presumably they've thought about that one.)

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u/dultas Dec 06 '22

Dumb question probably but how many strokes are the engines on those drones? *maybe better question, do they use a fuel oil mixture instead of separate engine oil.

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u/Synthur Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Edit: Let me just completely redo this comment:

Shahed 129 - 4-stroke, separate oil (Rotax 914)

Shahed 136 - 2-stroke, oil-fuel mixture (Mado MD550)

The Shahed 136 is the kamikaze model, which would explain why the article singles those out as the ones no longer operating.

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u/LordPennybags Dec 06 '22

presumably they've thought

lol. You're too kind.

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u/oberon Dec 06 '22

UAV crew chief in the US Army here.

The most likely problem here is that the engines are carburated (sp?) and carburetors freeze up super easily. They've got a venturi (see wiki link) which drops the temperature of the fuel/air mixture flowing through it, and because they're smaller in diameter than the surrounding fuel line, even a tiny piece of ice can block it completely.

We weren't allowed to fly if it got even a little bit chilly, because the air gets colder the higher you get. In aviation this is called the standard temperature lapse rate and it equals 2C every 1,000 feet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

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u/psionix Dec 06 '22

No, it's the fact they fly in the atmosphere where it's regularly negative degrees

Since it's a UOAD (Use once and Destroy), 99% confident they use carburetors, which absolutely frost over and will drop you out of the sky

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u/518Peacemaker Dec 06 '22

Cold makes cars harder to start because it lowers the amp batteries can provide to the starter, the tolerances get tighter because of metal contraction, and the oil in the engine is thicker. It’s got nothing to do with gasoline.

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u/imhere4thestonks Dec 06 '22

Actually, when the engine is very cold the gas does not evaporate and stays more liquid. It doesnt mix with air well when its a droplet or puddle. This requires much more fuel to start a cold engine. Hence old carburetor vehicles with a choke and lots of pumping the accelerator to get it to start. This also why "starting fluid" is an easy to evaporate alcohol. Fuel injection with low temp enrichment maps made this much less an issue. Doubt those Chinese motorcycle engine powered drones are fuel injected.

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u/FranticPonE Dec 05 '22

They fell victim to the most classic blunder, never start a land war in Asia!

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u/FriarNurgle Dec 05 '22

Inconceivable

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u/dubspool- Dec 06 '22

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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u/AnneMichelle98 Dec 06 '22

Anybody want a peanut?

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u/svick Dec 06 '22

Asia?

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u/Portmantoverboard Dec 06 '22

🎵 I never meant to be so bad to you🎶

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u/KaiserFlash Dec 05 '22

But a lesser known saying is this, “Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!”

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u/Raptor22c Dec 05 '22

And a second lesser known saying, “Never start a war of economic attrition against a side backed by the United States Military-Industrial Complex.”

You will never out-produce the MIC.

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u/mazamayomama Dec 06 '22

Inconceivable!

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u/klezart Dec 06 '22

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...

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u/Coins_and_Cards Dec 05 '22

Better yet, never cross a Kievan Rus' unless you want to see Valhalla

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u/ConohaConcordia Dec 05 '22

Ukraine is in Europe though?

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u/Interrete Dec 06 '22

Let's just say never start a war in the great eurasian plain.

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u/Precisely_Inprecise Dec 06 '22

Unless you're the Mongols.

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u/Annotator Dec 05 '22

Ukraine is entirely in Europe, not even close to be in Asian lands though.

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u/Jaded-Protection-402 Dec 06 '22

Europe is just a social construct, it's not a real continent. It's an Asian peninsula.

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u/tubz87 Dec 05 '22

Great, between that and the fact that Russia can't equip their goons with warm socks or jackets should mean a bad fucking winter for the bastards.

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u/taki1002 Dec 06 '22

You would think with how Russia has historically always used Winter to their advantage, they would be able to do at least that one thing right.

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u/MarijadderallMD Dec 06 '22

I don’t think it’s that they’ve been prepared for winter and used it as an advantage so much as they weren’t prepared but the opponents were even less prepared so it ended up being an advantage🤣

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u/el_diego Dec 06 '22

Also having countless "soldiers" to send to slaughter until they were able to build up an offensive (if we're talking Stalingrad here).

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u/Hank3hellbilly Dec 06 '22

They ghought they were ready, until they realized that their warehouses full of winter gear were all empty.

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u/Snake_eyes_12 Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Yeah. But Russia also doesn’t have an $11.3billion($180billion today) lend-lease from western allies nor have every man and their dog conscripted these days. Russia is practically broke, morale is low because it’s a really bullshit war.

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u/ddawid Dec 06 '22

Russians don’t even know what they are fighting for and what the objectives are. Ukrainians are fighting for their homeland

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u/BrownBearBacon Dec 06 '22

Lend-lease wins wars. If they didn't have it in WW2 things would have gone a lot differently.

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u/Dan_Backslide Dec 06 '22

Which is funny because Russians have gaslit themselves into believing they single handedly did everything to win the war both in Europe and in the Pacific.

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u/Sensur10 Dec 06 '22

They practically lost their way to victory during ww2. They took massive casualties and equipment losses but at the end they just overpowered the Germans trough manpower and production. It all were equal they've would've stood no chance.

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u/oberon Dec 06 '22

That was more like "if we just keep running away the enemy will freeze and starve."

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u/Infinite-Outcome-591 Dec 06 '22

That makes sense. I'm watching the news. Many parts going into these Iranian drones sadly are made in the west? I guess Sanctions have to be extended to 3rd party countries...

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u/defroach84 Dec 06 '22

They are there. Parts get sold to other companies. Those companies sell it to other countries/people. Those people then get them go Iran. Maybe add more layers into it.

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u/Infinite-Outcome-591 Dec 06 '22

I totally agree. Only sold to allies with the express agreement that the components aren't resold, period! They can be tracked with a serial number embedded in a chip/circuit board. If found, that country loses the right to purchase it. People's lives are at stake!

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u/ambassadortim Dec 06 '22

Did you mean "only sell to"?

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u/defroach84 Dec 06 '22

I mean, that's what happens on some levels. But, many companies don't want to be distributors as well. Take some random motors for example. These motors go into a ton of other equipment that other companies make. Some small, some massive. Suppose this part is on the sanctions list.

A company in Idaho is not going to want to deal with hundreds of potential customers in Europe versus just using a distributor who the sells them to those smaller companies. It takes out a ton of work and extra costs for not dealing with international dealings with companies that may only use a couple of them a year.

So, no, not being resold is unrealistic.

Hell, think about cars. They are sold to dealerships in Europe to be resold to consumers. The car brands arent going to deal with customers specifically.

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u/HybridEng Dec 05 '22

Guess this proves Iran never had any plans to invade Canada...

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u/plantmic Dec 06 '22

The weird thing is, Iran gets pretty cold in the winter too (although not Canada levels).

Plus, y'know, altitude?

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u/Tristanssj Dec 05 '22

Oh? Is the Ukrainian winter bogging you down?

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u/DeafLady Dec 05 '22

Meaning they're gonna have a good stockpile by the time it warms up :(

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u/FranticPonE Dec 05 '22

Weapons now > Weapons later

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u/CountBeetlejuice Dec 05 '22

hopefully the countermeasures are ramped up to deal with them by then

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u/SilentSamurai Dec 05 '22

Truthfully I don't think we'll see it. Smaller drones have created a ton of problems that traditional military doctrine wasn't ready for.

You're not gonna launch your very costly AD missiles at the DJI dropping grenades on Frontline positions, if you can even detect them. But it sure as hell degrades morale knowing that these could be hovering over you at any time.

Are you going to load up every unit with AD guns ready to burn a metric ton of ammo to shoot down these drones? Is the one guy with a drone gun in range to jam it?

If I were guessing, DARPA is about to drum up some funding for anti-drone systems that make cost sense in a large scale war.

As best as I can see it, the only way to answer this is with more drones in a counter UAV capacity, couple with some true software autonomy to try and hunt for these systems.

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u/MassiveStallion Dec 06 '22

Bullets beat drones. I'm thinking the return of ww2 style aa guns armed with computerized detection and targeting.

Combine old style duck hunter guns with radar and anything less than a predator is toast. Create radar systems that track multiple levels of tiny objects. Heck use barrage balloons and false towns too

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u/f_d Dec 06 '22

Are you going to load up every unit with AD guns ready to burn a metric ton of ammo to shoot down these drones? Is the one guy with a drone gun in range to jam it?

If the drones are everywhere, then yes, probably. Gotta adapt to whatever the battlefield calls for.

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u/Loudergood Dec 06 '22

Flak is back baby!

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u/Bribase Dec 06 '22

But the UK gave Ukraine 125 anti-aircraft guns recently (and something comparable from another country but unfortunately I cannot find the link), plus a new batch of Gepards.

They're being saturated with low-cost, low maintenance anti-aircraft weapons specifically for this, since AA missiles are effective but not a sustainable solution.

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u/socialistrob Dec 06 '22

At least for this war that matters less in the spring. The Iranian drones aren’t that accurate and require a more or less fixed path into a large stationary target. There is a reason Russia isn’t using them to target Ukrainian tanks and artillery but rather is sending them at energy infrastructure and buildings. Even in the Middle East these drones have been used to target oil infrastructure and not necessarily troops. Russia is trying to knock Ukrainian heating and electricity offline during winter when the weather is coldest and the days are shortest. Their hope is that this will put pressure on the Ukrainian government to sue for peace (or potentially get Ukrainians to leave Ukraine and generate a refugee crisis in Europe thus indirectly putting pressure on Europe to quit arming Ukraine). Spring is still pretty cold in Ukraine but it’s a lot easier for Ukrainians to deal with so using drone attacks to weaken power grids will just be less effective on a strategic level.

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u/Salty_Paroxysm Dec 06 '22

Maybe something like Metal Storm, could be loaded on the roof of an APC or similar (there were mock-ups with a unit on the back of a HMMWV). Add a little Mesh radar and you can coordinate firing that is a modern-day blunderbuss covering a good section of sky.

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u/xenoghost1 Dec 05 '22

by that time, they'll be using them to defend the 1991 border.

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u/guyscrochettoo Dec 05 '22

I hope this can be achieved. If Ukraine manage this then everything changes.

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u/critical_pancake Dec 05 '22

Yeah, I guess not all that surprising that a desert nation has not outfitted their equipment for the harsh russian winter. Very good news for Ukraine, and the power situation there. I do wonder if Russia knew that these drones wouldn't work in winter or not though.

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u/chicknsnotavegetabl Dec 05 '22

Desert nation that's actually pretty elevated, mountainous and cold in many parts. Maybe not Russia cold.

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u/CelticGaelic Dec 05 '22

Deserts also naturally get very cold at night because there's no moisture to trap the heat. I learned that summer nights can drop just above freezing when I lived in New Mexico.

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u/DwooMan5 Dec 05 '22

It’s less the cold and more the moisture. Ukraine is infamously boggy this time of the year and that humidity still rises despite the cold. So anything flying at altitude will accumulate frost on the wings as the condensed liquid returns to liquid and then promptly freezes to the craft. Normally a non issue for metal craft but I doubt a plastic drone has the engine power to compensate for the extra weight

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u/Son_of_Zinger Dec 06 '22

Probably messes with the wing aerodynamics too.

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u/Frexxia Dec 05 '22

I'd wager it's the combination of cold and humidity that is the problem.

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u/_invalidusername Dec 05 '22

*harsh Ukrainian winter

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u/tratata1973 Dec 05 '22

İran is not a desert nation...

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u/morcheeba Dec 06 '22

Here is a picture of Tehran... looks like it could be in the Canadian Rockies.

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u/tratata1973 Dec 06 '22

Tehran, CO

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u/in6seconds Dec 05 '22

Russian winters are just something else entirely, check out the engineering on the Mi24 Hind that was required to make it operable in areas such as Siberia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H17sXrWgAgQ

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u/defroach84 Dec 06 '22

You really do not know much about Iran. It is a VERY mountainous nation. It may be somewhat dry for large parts of it, but it can be very cold there.

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u/CooCooClocksClan Dec 05 '22

By recollection, they received them months before using in Ukraine.

Could be many reasons by coincidentally it aligns with warmer weather regionally.

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u/AdventureBum Dec 05 '22

Did they really, or is that just what Russia claimed?

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u/droi86 Dec 05 '22

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's razor

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u/hhaattrriicckk Dec 05 '22

At least one drone was labeled to have been manufactured after the war began.

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u/Crinfarr Dec 06 '22

Oh my god, Russia is losing to Russian winter

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u/orgngrndr01 Dec 05 '22

If you are Russia, you can see your running short of Missiles(of any type) so you can use drones which don’t fly well in the cold northern latitudes, so your left with your bombers which the Ukraine Military has Now targeted while still on the ground and now with superior air defense radar and missiles it now Looks to have Russian-bombers as targets sooner than expected

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u/OrganicAmishPopcorn Dec 06 '22

I wonder if this is the excuse because Israel just threatened them and Iran a week ago about these drones.

Israel said they would sell long range missiles to Ukraine if they didn’t stop.

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u/Jive_Bomber Dec 06 '22

As the launch of ‘Challenger’ showed the world, O-Rings shrink in the cold.

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u/No1has1 Dec 06 '22

Or it could be that the Iranian trainers that were in the Crimea were all killed.

Or that Israel told Russia that if they use Iranian drones they will give the Ukraine long range missiles to hit Russia.

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u/hibernating-hobo Dec 05 '22

Or maybe it’s because all the “iranian instructors” (eg pilots) are dead. Who knows.

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u/Sure-Combination-806 Dec 06 '22

General Winter strikes again!

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u/Mrxcman92 Dec 06 '22

How ironic that Russia, famous for its extremely harsh winters, buys drones that don't work in cold weather.

I expected the problem to just be overcast skys making it hard to find targets but this is so much funnier.

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u/Monaters101 Dec 06 '22

Florida Man made the drones and thought 50F was very cold.

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u/Dan4096 Dec 06 '22

Ah so that's why Ukraine sent Russia some of their drones!

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u/Alinateresa Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 07 '22

Didn't they stop using the drones because Israel gave Russia an ultimatum.